Talk:2023–2024 Georgian protests

Splitting proposal

2023–2024 Georgian protests → 2023 Georgian protests + 2024 Georgian protests

Proposing split for the following reasons:

• There is a huge time difference between the 2023 and 2024 protest with the distinct and non-overlapping periods
• The 2024 legislation proposal is not identical to the one in 2023, it has been slightly amended since
• The 2023 were ultimately successful; the bill was withdrawn
• A lot has happened geo-politically in a year
• This time the outcome may be different as the ruling Georgian Dream party isn't backing down this time round
• The protests have been in 2024 much more brutally repressed

Abcmaxx (talk) 20:00, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd support this. I think it's a clear sign of a needed split when an article is covering events in a bizarre way like this one, splitting reactions into "2023 reactions" and "2024 reactions" etc bc the topics are so different. Maybe we could also have an article at Georgian foreign agent law/Law on Transparency of Foreign Influence that would cover the shared context of the protests? HappyWith (talk) 14:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually, returning to this discussion, I'm not sure. The structural problems actually don't seem too baked in. Lots of unnecessary "reactions" bloat of European and Georgian politicians repeating the same statements over and over. We could easily fix those problems then just rename the article to Georgian foreign agent law protests or something. HappyWith (talk) 22:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'm convinced by Jmc's comment in the previous discussion: It's inarguable that it's essentially the same issue with similar public involvement. The fact that there was a period of lower public activity between the two manifestations is not reason enough to have two separate articles. I'd oppose the split. HappyWith (talk) 13:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Both 2023 and 2024 protests were about same topic and having a separate article for 2023 protests would be very inconclusive since 2024 protests are continuation of the 2023 thing. The reactions, sides, topic, context are all the same, there is nothing peculiar about 2023 protests which would suggest that are different in a major way from 2024 protests. Just because there was a gap does not mean it is a different thing. Also, the difference about law is only that term "foreign agent" was replaced with "organization carrying out foreign interests". The outcome of 2024 might be different that's why having separate article for 2023 would look inconclusive. Nivzaq (talk) 17:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Support Came from ITN, this needs to be split even if the articles are about the same bill. If no split then there needs to be a move to rename the article referencing what the protests are about. WIth the split there can be a third article about the legislation and then two articles about the protests in each respective year. Just having "2023-2024 georgian protests" isn't specific enough. Normalman101 (talk) 15:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Support It wasn't a continuous thing. Firestar464 (talk) 22:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Support Also agree with you. It wasn't continuous as other protests. JJUPLOADS22 (talk) 18:42, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose we literally had a discussion about renaming the article only last month, it's too recent. Great Mercian (talk) 09:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Could you direct me to that previous discussion about renaming the article? I don't see any such discussion on this talk page. HappyWith (talk) 13:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

See Talk:2023–2024 Georgian protests/Archive 1. Firestar464 (talk) 13:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. For some reason there was no archive navigator box so I didn't see that there were archives. HappyWith (talk) 13:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Numbers

The numbers of demonstrators were removed from the article, which I believe was correct. Firstly, the anti-government protests are largely self-organized or organized by multiple entities. The number of demonstrators varies from day to day, and there were protests on the daily basis. There was only one large pro-government protest, organized by the government, and they were largely composed of people of public service workers. In other words, the government uses the administrative power to mobilize people, so these aren't as organic as anti-government protests. As for the numbers, at the first peak in 2024, 28th of April, at the anti-government protest on Rustaveli Avenue, there were around 106 000 people, according to estimates using MapChecking.com and drone footage. The next day, 29th of April, there was that government-organized demonstration I mentioned above, and aroud 97 000 people were estimated, using the same methods. On May 11th, there was the second large anti-government protest, this time on the Europe Square, and around 143 000 people were estimated at 22:00. This was the second peak, and by far the biggest one.

These facts can be mentioned in a section, but reducing them down to simple numbers is quite deceptive. 91.151.137.40 (talk) 12:09, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Legal Europe

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 January 2024 and 15 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Stdntacc (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Stdntacc (talk) 17:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

25.000 NGO?

The only source for the claim, Georgia has 25.000 NGO is the Jacobin article, which in itself has no source quoted for this point. It is untruthful and should be deleted. 2A02:8388:8CB5:C700:ACA8:6FE4:4E1A:EA7C (talk) 14:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)