Talk:Arthur Waskow

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Comment[edit]

The recent changes need some careful discussion on a point by point basis.

I will revert to my last version and we can then discuss and changes desired in line with wiki policies.

Protoz 11:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Significant problems in article -- have tried to address[edit]

While I don't agree with the approach taken by the previous, reverted edits -- such as the description of Waskow as a "marxist" -- I do believe that the article was poorly written and did not have a neutral point of view.

Also it omitted significant facts about Waskow, such as his controversial position on the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Indeed the article in general read as if it had been written by Waskow.

I tried to eliminate the excessively self-promotional details but I think it requires further work. --Mantanmoreland 17:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

The protocol for the name os to give the current name in bold, with any prior names parenthetically. 12341234 07:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edits by User:Awaskow[edit]

This article was extensively edited, via the edition of extensive unsourced and unverifiable materials, by User:Awaskow. I have cautioned this user, who appears to be the subject of this article, that such edits are contrary to WP:VAIN. I have reverted edits containing original reserach not supported by verifiable, reliable sources. I have also noted identical edits by anonymous IPs and cautioned this user to not edit this article without logging in.

While I do believe Waskow may be sufficiently notable to be the subject of an article, the article needs to be neutral in tone. The changes by user Awaskow were self-promotional and original research and were objectionable even if not written by the subject of the article. --Mantanmoreland 15:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The policy was contrived and enforced only to advance the purposes of certain advocates who have claimed ownership of this project, but it is all the same against stated policy to attempt to identify editors of this project. Editors such as Mantanmoreland who attempt to identify contributors are routinely banned from further participation in the project. That Mantanmoreland with impunity attempts to identify another editor tells us volumes about who controls this project and the purposes for which it is operated. Morkadi 04:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands now[edit]

The article is not bad. there are a few unsourced statements of positions/activities but they seem like the sort of thing that there are reliable sources for. I found this after it was posted to the conflict of interest noticeboard. In that spirit I would just like to remind all editors to follow the biographies of living persons policy of NO UNSOURCED STATEMENTS. Anther slight criticism is that the article relies very heavily on one biography of the subject, more sources are usually better. Best of Luck. --Rocksanddirt 17:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ordination[edit]

Regarding the statement

"Waskow was ordained a rabbi in 1995 by a beth din (rabbinical court) made up of a rabbi with Hasidic lineage, a Conservative rabbi, a Reform rabbi, and a feminist theologian."

could it be any more vague? I see it's referenced to his personal bio on the Aleph website, which is fine, but it's just so vague that I don't think it's encyclopedic. Thoughts? Specifically "rabbi with Hasidic lineage" can be anyone, including a Reform rabbi whose great-great grandfather was a Chassidic Jew living in the shtetel Poland. Bstone (talk) 04:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a WP:RS, but the rabbi is described here as an "Orthodox rabbi with Hassidic roots". I have a feeling it was Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, but I'm looking for a source. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 05:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I mean. It's vague. Who is this "rabbi with Hasidic lineage" or, according to other websites, "Orthodox rabbi with Hassidic roots"? Since the latter is from a blog I am less convinced it can be included here. The earlier is from an official bio so it's fine to have, but I am just griping it's overly vague and just not encyclopedic. Who are these people/rabbis and why aren't they named? Is this a policy of deliberate ambiguity? Why the secrecy? Bstone (talk) 05:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More circumstantial evidence: "He later broke away, joining forces in 1993 with Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, Lubavitch-trained guru of new-age Jewish Renewal. Finally in 1995, at age 62, Waskow was ordained as a rabbi." This is from a WP:RS, an article by J. J. Goldberg, currently editor-in-chief of The Forward. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 05:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the secrecy, the same issue comes up with Michael Lerner. Both Waskow and Lerner are frequently at the center of political controversies, and I think there maybe a certain defensiveness at work: "Who are you to demand the names of the rabbis who gave me semicha?" Just speculation on my part. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 06:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely Zalman. I should ask him next time I am in Boulder. Of course that would be WP:OR and not able for inclusion. Curious to know if the vagueness of the ordaining rabbis might lead to it's removal from the article? Bstone (talk) 06:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American anti-Iraq War activists[edit]

User:Thoughtman keeps removing this article from Category:American anti-Iraq War activists.

A person qualifies for the category if he (a) is opposed to the war in Iraq and (b) is an American residing in America who has said publicly either that (i) he believes that the Iraq War was illegal from the beginning or (ii) he believes that the Iraq War is being waged imprudently and he has become publicly known as a critic of the war or the justifications used to launch it.

This article has many references to Waskow's public protests against the war in Iraq. In my view, he satisfies the criteria for inclusion in the category. What do other editors think? — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 03:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. According to this he's against it. Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 03:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. Thoughtman and Malik Shabazz continue to edit war. I've placed final edit war templates on their talk pages and alerted an admin. Bstone (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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