Talk:Heligoland/Archive 1

Archive 1

Looking for relatives

We just recently found out where my great grand father was born and it happened to be in Helgoland. Besides his name - Friedrich Joachim - I have very little information regarding date of birth except it was anywhere in the 1980´s. Could you help me indicating where to look for further information? Thanks and regards, Eduardo Joachim - Sao Paulo - Brazil - ejoach@terra.com.br

I suppose you mean 1880's. Good luck. BigBen212 (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Schengen Treaty

The Schengen Treaty article says that Heligoland is outside the Schengen zone. Anyone know why? Seabhcán 22:42, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Since this part of the Heligoland entry already caused some confusion among foreigners holding a Schengen visa and wondering if they are allowed to visit Heligoland or not, I will delete this sentence in the article.

Anyway, this got probably confused with the customs status of Heligoland and maybe there is not enough authority on the island to make it a proper entrace point to the Schengen area but since it is a part of the Federal Republic of Germany it is thus a part of the Schengen area.

This sentence should only be reintrotuced with a persuading citation. Mafeu 00:59 23.11.2006

No there seems to be some special status for the island enduring from its transfer from Britain to Germany -- this source states it's "outside the EU": http://books.google.com/books?id=Z5t5mZE_s5YC&pg=PA702&dq=helgoland+-insel#PPA702,M1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.146.28 (talk) 11:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Heligoland Bight

I've replaced the Heligoland Bight redirect with a proper stub, to prevent the German Bight→Heligoland Bight→Heligoland double redirect, and avoid the self-link that was present in this article. It's merely the result of some googling, so feel free to improve upon it. --Fbriere 18:17, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Attempted destruction

"On 18 April 1947, the Royal Navy detonated 6800 tons of explosives in a concerted attempt to destroy the main island." I understand that they'd been using it for a bombing range, but what made them try to blow up an entire island? — Trilobite (Talk) 4 July 2005 06:36 (UTC)

IIRC, there were two reasons: the island had an very extensive network of bunkers/tunnels that should be destroyed, and to get rid of some of the unneeded explosives left over from WWII. The tunnels were filled with the explosives and then detonated, which was quite a spectacular sight (i wonder if any of the photos flying around on the web would be public domain) --84.56.88.22 4 July 2005 13:22 (UTC)

One here: http://www.national-zeitung.de/bilder/2003/Helgoland_Rauchsaeule.jpg It's from 1947, so over 50 years old - is that enough? Lethesl 12:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The link given above is no longer valid. A search on that site for "Helgoland" (German name) only brings up references to the German National Anthem, where Helgoland is mentioned.--TGC55 (talk) 01:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The Brits couldn't annex it (they would have been forced to give it back sooner or later) or occupy it forever and they didn't want it in German hands either (it disturbed British naval and later air operations in both World Wars), so they tried to destroy it. - Alureiter 14:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

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Hi! So as we do seem to agree (here and in the trivia section) that the British did not only want to destroy the tunnels or bunkers but the entire island, shouldn't that also be made clear in the article itself? If noone disgrees, i'm going to change it in a while. Edwing 02:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

At present, the article has the fairly neutral text "While aiming at the fortifications, the island's total destruction would have been accepted". There is no citation given to support this.

It would be nice to have references supporting the statement already in place in the article. Also, if any sources can be found which support the suggestion that the British intended to destroy the island completely (even as a secondary or tertiary objective, since disposal of munitions and reduction of the fortifications seemed to be the main aims) then that should be included in the article too - I think it is of considerable interest, as perhaps the only attempt by any nation to completely destroy an island for these sorts of reasons.

(There may be others, but I can't think of any right now) -- Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Carfree

Until recently the article described Heligoland as carfree. Although the tourist board page [1] contains the line "here you will neither encounter any car noise toxic exhaust gases, i. e. pure nature – everywhere", the text seems hyperbolic and badly translated ("in desalinated condition the water has got drinking water norm"). A google search for "heligoland carfree" points only to Wikipedia or its mirrors. I want to know - and provide some sources - if it is true that the island is totally and perpetually devoid of cars and motor vehicles, and that if this is so, it is a consequence of policy rather than the practicality of importing and fuelling cars; in other words, if Heligoland is indeed car-free, is this by choice or necessity? -Ashley Pomeroy 10:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

It's not only carfree, it's also bicycle free (by law), I'll add it to the trivia section. - Alureiter 15:04, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Bicycle free? What the hell? Are shoes allowed, or do they have to go barefoot? ;-) Kjkolb 09:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems hard to believe, but I suggest you go there and have a good look around. You will then realize that vehicles of any kind simply do not make sense on Heligoland. But, yes, shoes are allowed. Unoffensive text or character 14:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Reason bikes are not allowed is that this would require signs to be put up which would then spoil the nature, I guess. That's what the German Helgoland article states. This article said that cars and motorbikes were not allowed, but the special traffic law for Helgoland clearly says that cars and bicycles are not allowed. I fixed that part.BigBen212 (talk) 16:38, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

There are actually tuktuk like cars to transport luggage. amd tourist trains( those mini trains theme parks have but on road not on tracks ) and Re bike free: what dou you do when no bikes are allowed? you take 20 inch wheels and make a scooter out of it. Seriously those 20" scooters are everywhete and I dont see the sense between having 20 inch wheel scooters or bikes. like what gives. cant be a speed thing cant be a space thing and you cant exactly go far with stolen item of that size either. Oh and if you are at the youth hostel it is a brisk 15 min walk to town centre where youll find the supermarket that closes on 3pm on a saturday. Gotta lead the people into the restaurants afterall — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.186.168.137 (talk) 22:05, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

If you doubt it's car and bike free, I suggest 'visiting' it virtually via Google images. It is almost as tidy as a theme park with streets uncluttered by vehicles.--FDent (talk) 17:48, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Heligoland Politics

Strange that all of Heligoland politics is omitted. Most Wikipedia places have a "political" section on it. There is no mention of a "Helgoland fuer Helgolanders" movement, or ecological, reparations, Schengensproblem, zuruek-nach-Britannien, causeway or ordinance issues. Tilsit 14:58, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

There is not much to say, I guess. Don't forget that this very small island is fully dependent on tourism from the mainland - and that's it. The language is taught in schools, but now it's more like folklore. In local elections (2003), three parties competed. Surprisingly, the Liberal party (FDP) got most of the votes (37,1 %), gaining five (of 13) seats in the assembly, both Christian Democrats (CDU) and Social Democrats (SPD) winning four seats respectively. (source: German wiki article and Heligoland official website) --DaQuirin 19:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Mostly from curiosity, what is zuruek-nach-Britannien ? (sorry I don't know any German at all) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Demiurge1000 (talk • contribs) 01:25, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

"Zurück nach Britannien" means "Back to Britain" - more correct would be "Zurück nach Großbritannien" --> "Back to Great Britain" TomGaribaldi (talk) 07:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Bundesland

On the map in my German classroom it labels Helgoland "zu Hamburg" in the same way as Bremerhafen is labelled "zu Bremen". Does anyone know why this might be, as elsewhere it seems only to be seen as part of Schleswig-Holstein? (Edmund1989 12:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC))

Your map is wrong, it belongs to Schleswig-Holstein. The small island of Neuwerk in the Elbe delta belongs to Hamburg. Regards, --Sunshinemind 16:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

official sea bath

What is a "sea bath", particularly an official one? Is it just a seaside resort where bathing is popular and does the term actually exist? Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:32, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess it is a rather too literal translation of "See Bad". Bad in German means bath, but also designates places where wealthy people go on holiday to "take the waters", and roughly corresponds to English "Spa". I have changed "sea bath" to "marine spa". Maproom (talk) 13:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

"Seebad" is actually a title awarded to seaside spa towns in Germany where all the medical facilities are provided to make it an approved health resort (which is necessary to get your treatment on receipt and to be reimbursed by your health insurance). Since this titling is a rather modern bureaucratical act I very much doubt that Heligoland became an "official" resort in 1827. I'll remove "official" and the "clarify me" tag. De728631 (talk) 08:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Think of bath or blackpool in England. coastal places that serve relaxation and healing in less polluted air than other places — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.186.168.137 (talk) 22:17, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Films

Part of Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens was not filmed here, it was filmed on Sylt, you just see a beach in the film, no rocks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.209.70.216 (talk) 01:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Special Territorial Status Outside EU?

it's pecial legal status -- "and economically isn't part of the EU" -- enduring from the treaty terms of its transfer from Britain to Germany:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z5t5mZE_s5YC&pg=PA702&dq=helgoland+-insel#PPA702,M1

Is this accurate?

The article is accurate, the island is not part of the VAT zone of Germany making it some kind of tax heaven, I suppose the German government wanted to create an additional source of income for the inhabitants - fishing isn't very profitable. The agreement of 1840 is still valid, although the German government could declare it invalid if necessary.Johnny2323 (talk) 13:31, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

How could Germany declare the treaty "invalid"? SchnitteUK (talk) 14:59, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Basically you can buy booze and tobacco vat free there but then they ramp up the prices anyway. ( I checked and a certain bottle of whiskey was actually 3 eur more exp than in Hamburg ) it is a tourist trap regarding that.( Fore everything else it it is quite stunning the rock , the sea buckthorn( they make jam , confectionary and licquor out of)

Transfer from UK to Germany

From reading Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World, it states that an exchange of Heligoland from British to German Control was due to the German Government exchanging Zanzibar(?) for it. Can anyone confirm this, unfortunately I don't have the book on me at the moment. Pluke (talk) 23:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

see Heligoland–Zanzibar Treaty - it is all explained there 07:08, 15 July 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.42.252.102 (talk)

Temperature data

Can someone check the temperature? There is an error in the conversion.

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.111.152 (talk) 13:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The first temperature conversion is correct, and the second is too because that isn't an absolute, but a temperature difference. Lars T. (talk) 02:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The police car

Additional fact to the police car: First police car in 2007 was a mercedes A class. Now it has been replaced by an electric car from italian carmaker "Piaggio". In opposite to the A-Class this kind of car seems to be more adequate for the needs of such a small island. I found this about the reason for the exchange:

>> Mit dem Fahrzeug wurde der Auflage des Kreises Pinneberg genüge getan, ein Elektro-Fahrzeug als Streifenwagen zu beschaffen. Der stellvertretende Bürgermeister hält nach wie vor ein Dienstfahrrad für ausreichend - auch wegen der eingeschränkten Fluchtgefahr eventueller Straftäter. "Aber die Entscheidung ist gefallen, wir müssen das jetzt respektieren", so sein Kommentar (from www.abendblatt.de) << --> Landkreis (administrative district) of Pinneberg claimed to exchance the A-Class to an electric vehicle. They did it and replaced the A-Class with the Piaggio. The vicariousness mayor of Helgoland declared that a police car at all is not neccesary for helgoland. The police bicyle would suffice. (sorry for my bad language skills) TomGaribaldi (talk) 09:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Name in English

Hi, I've never heard, that this island has another name in two different languages. It seems the name has to be checked once more in naval charts. In Germany this island is named Helgoland and not Heligoland. Bernd

The island has one name in German and another in English. What's so unusual about that? Many islands or regions have different names in different languages. SchnitteUK (talk) 16:48, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd second Bernd's comment though. It's certainly true that, say berries and fruits and things have different names in different languages, but I was surprised about the "i" they seemingly put in there in English. I can't quite believe this is true, to be honest. Not saying that whoever did that for the article is a liar, but I've never seen it. Sarah — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.73.144.247 (talk) 18:54, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

So do you have cites for another name than Heligoland being common in English? SchnitteUK (talk) 14:55, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Even Encyclopedia Britannica calls it Helgoland with an alternative spelling "Heligoland". Why are we using that weird spelling as the main one? (https://www.britannica.com/place/Helgoland) dr.phees (talk) 04:50, 17 Okt 2022

We are using this one because it is correct, particularly in British English which is the appropriate dialect for this article. Britannica is an American encyclopaedia so I am not sure that they have anything useful to offer on the topic. Cheers DBaK (talk) 09:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Just to continue this, and notwithstanding the person below saying Oxford don't have it:

Heligoland – Pronunciation: /ˈhɛlɪɡəʊland/ A small island in the North Sea off the coast of Germany, one of the North Frisian Islands. The island was Danish from 1714 until seized by the British navy in 1807 and later ceded officially to Britain. In 1890 it was returned to Germany. German name Helgoland.

"Heligoland". Oxford Dictionaries. Oxford University Press, n.d. Web. 17 October 2022. <https://premium.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/heligoland> via Oxford Dictionaries Online.

I hope this helps, best to all, DBaK (talk) 19:46, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

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A very similar article already exists as Helgoland, thus we have the same twice, once with the german spelling, once with an english spelling. Someone has the time to merge them both?

• I'll put it on my list of things to do sometime. The Helgoland article seems better on the physical geography, this one on the history. I think as this is the English Wikipedia there ought eventually to be a redirect from Helgoland to Heligoland. -- Arwel 22:28 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

Merged. It should indeed be under its English name. I've now redirected the Helgoland article here. -Scipius 23:26 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

Why should it indeed be under the English name? It surely confuses me - in a globalized world, isn't it time high to standardize on the real name for proper nouns instead of insisting on odd variants depending on language (Like what has already been done for pin-yin Beijing instead of Peking). -- Egil 04:28 Mar 17, 2003 (UTC)

While your suggestion has some merit, it's normal practice in an English-language publication to use the English forms of place names. I created the Heligoland article after doing the article on the Battle of Heligoland Bight because it simply never occurred to me that an encyclopedia in the English language would have an entry on Helgoland. Peking --> Beijing is just about the only example I can think of where a placename has been changed in recent decades, and this is merely a change in the form of Romanisation used -- we're not using the Chinese form of the name for the place, otherwise we'd be using Chinese characters. In any case, what would you do when more than one language is used locally? I'm from Wales, and most places that are larger than villages have both an English and a Welsh name -- should this Wikipedia use both or either? Which is the real name? In the English Wikipedia, I'd be perfectly happy to use "Cardiff", "Wrexham", or "Holyhead"; if I was working on cy.wikipedia, I'd use "Caerdydd", "Wrecsam", and "Caergybi" instead. -- Arwel 20:15 Mar 17, 2003 (UTC)

Well there is no such thing as a "real name" of anything. Names serve a nominative purpose so that people can index information. The only thing that matters then is what the most commonly used and understood name is in the language you are writing in. Since this is the English Wikipedia we use what English speakers use. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) for more. --mav

That there is no "real name" for something is simply not true. At least where I come from, a real and official name exists for any geographical location. I guess that would be the case in most of the world. Like in Wales, there may be more than one official name, in which case we are spoilt for choice and may use the one most appropriate for the context. Also, where I come from, we more or less gave up the entire concept of having our own names for foreign places somewhere along the 20th century. Traditional Venedig and Rom has changed to Venezia and Roma. This is a very good move since not only is it highly practical in a globalized world, it is also a matter of common courtesy toward the inhabitants of said areas. In fact, since I've now given the matter a bit of thought, use of ones own invented names instead of accepting the proper one can easily be interpreted as a sign of imperialism. In some cases, as in Rhodesia vz. Zimbabwe or Ceylon vz. Sri Lanka so obviously so that the name in English usage was in fact changed. And yes, Peking vz. Beijing is a good example since Beijing is the offical name of the city by way of the offical Romanization, pin-yin (all signs for geographical names does by law have the Romanised form displayed).

OK, I'm not proposing to change the English language here and now, but if it is the intention for the Wikipedia to be an international encyclopedia in English language, at least any entry that uses a unique English form should have a redirect fron the proper name too. -- Egil 06:20 Mar 18, 2003 (UTC)

Ah. I didn't knew Norwegians had started to call Germany "Deutschland" instead of "Tyskland".--Victor falk 20:12, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia editors aren't allowed to "innovate" -- we have to use the most standard way of doing anything and then discuss any variation in use (not in our opinions). But my school history book in the US had "Helgoland" if I'm not mistaken.

Here's a US-centric dictionary with Heligoland as a variant, referred to Helgoland: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Heligoland&db=luna

I suppose as a former British territory we should use the current preferred name in the current Oxford English Dictionary as the title of the article; but if Helgoland is more standard in the US this should be noted.

BREAKING NEWS: no geographical names in the Oxford English Dictionary! Guh. (Is that in there?) Based on the US dictionary cited above, I'm noting in some awkward way US form usually Helgoland.

My online Oxford dictionary does have an entry for Heligoland – please see above, from me, timed at 19:46, 17 October 2022 for more. Thanks, DBaK (talk) 07:11, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Katzenjammer

If memory serves, the characters from 'he Captain and the (Katzenjammer) Kids' were from Heligoland. When fed up, the Captain would exclaim 'Back to Heligoland, Lena!'

98.176.248.11 (talk) 17:51, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Airport

I usually go to wikipedia first to find out information on local airports when making travel plans --- which is why I was surprised to see nothing mentioned here about the Heligoland Airport. This being an island and a tourist destination, I am doubly surprised --- can someone improve the article in this respect? — Muckapedia (talk) 24^e fév. 2015 11h50 (−4h)