Talk:Il trovatore

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Untitled[edit]

The following link is broke: MP3 Creative Commons Recording 295th (talk) 14:49, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can't locate it on the site where it's supposed to be, so have removed the link.
--GuillaumeTell 16:37, 20 June 2010 (UTC) (P.S. Best to click the "New Section" tab up at the top in order to add something to a Talk page.)[reply]

The sypnosis is a bit confusing... :( Is it a precise version?

--Hkchan123 12:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps a list of characters and an overall plot synopsis at the beginning will work.

-- Fogelmatrix 21:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reworking the synopsis. I agree, there's some confusion, and some important details have been left out. Also grooming prose and details, (e.g. "di Luna" instead of "Luna'), on the basis of OSborne's book. Herbivore (talk) 02:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not really the synopsis writer's fault. This opera libretto has always been considered a mess. Nearly all the crucial events happen offstage and between the acts; one happens twenty years earlier. Leonora suddenly gets religion so that Manrico can break into a nunnery and give the original Catholic audience a big thrill; once that is over with she forgets all about the religious stuff. Manrico starts off as a minstrel, forgets about it in act II, somehow gets his harp back in jail, then forgets again in act IV. Nobody seems to know or care what the war is about. Two of the characters, Inez and Ruiz, exist for no other reason than to be sung to by other characters. When comedy writers like Sir William Gilbert or the Marx Brothers want to poke fun at opera plots, they always pick this one.CharlesTheBold (talk) 00:52, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Questions About The Scene I Synopsis[edit]

"The good Count di Luna lived happily, the father of two sons".

Is this the Count di Luna of this opera or his father?

"It appears that a gypsy had once bewitched the little brother of the count, "

So the father count has two sons and a little brother?

"making the child weak and ill, and for this had been burnt alive as a witch. Dying, she had commanded her daughter Azucena to avenge her, which she did by carrying off the younger brother."

Which younger brother? The younger of the father count's two sons, or the father count's little brother?

"Although the burnt bones of a child were found in the ashes of the pyre, the father refused to believe in his son's death; "

Wait, I thought the witch was burnt on the pyre, and the younger brother (of either the father count or the son count - I'm not sure which) was carried off.

"dying, he commanded Count di Luna to seek Azucena."

Oh, no. I thought he WAS Count di Luna. He commanded himself? Why was he dying? Was he on the pyre too?

Please rework this so it makes more sense to someone who does not know the story. 27 February 2009 (UTC)Melliforte

After a brief search, I recommend the synopsis at: http://opera.stanford.edu/Verdi/Trovatore/synopsis.html 27 February 2009 (UTC)Melliforte

Ferrando and Fernando[edit]

I noticed that someone edited "Ferrando"'s name and changed to "Fernando" with message "Wrong spelling"? To avoid being edit again and again, I put both names there. It pronounced "Ferrando" and also written as "Ferrando" in the Il trovatore libretto but some articles and opera pronounced it as "Fernando". For reference, please go to Il trovatore Ferrando role I vote for "Ferrando" but it depends on you guys. In the meantime, I just leave it as 2 names - Jay 07:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ferrando is definitely correct - this is the form of name that appears in all opera reference books and on all recording liner-notes. It may look like a misprint for Fernando, but it isn't. --GuillaumeTell 00:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it seems like we have to monitor the name from time to time to avoid people from changing it again. Ferrando is definitely correct as written in the libretto. - Jay 02:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The article is on my watchlist (I added Template:Verdi operas to the article), which is how I came to see the above, so I'll be able to spot any reversion to Fernando. But why don't you add it to your watchlist, too. --GuillaumeTell 16:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No need for "Noted arias" section when all on the list have been incorporated into the text of the synopsis[edit]

Have reverted re-installian of that section.Viva-Verdi (talk) 02:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Noted arias section in all opera articles will be deleted after the list have been incorporated into synopsis as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats - Jay (talk) 06:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very old-fashioned look[edit]

This page, at first glance, likes an encyclopedia from the 19th century. We have Netrebko and we don't use her (on top). I do not understand this world. She was and is and will be one of the best Leonoras ever and deserves the top spot. (Heard her twice in Salzburg). On the top of the page I do not want to see anyone else. Please, let's find an agreement, I do not like edit wars. --Meister und Margarita (talk) 23:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you put up an entirely unsuitable landscape-sized image onto the top right side of the article at one point which I know was reverted by another editor. In my opinion, the only shot on Commons right now is the one on the Spanish and German articles, but it badly needs cropping. There's a character barely visible to the right (as though he is waiting to come onstage or hiding) and the painting slops into the frame at the left. I'm not sure whether the licence given allows cropping, but I can easily pop it into Photoshop and get it to look a lot better..... THEN, we can get a consensus on whether it works. Viva-Verdi (talk) 01:12, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Pronunciation[edit]

Apparently Michael Bednarek believes to be entitled to delete sourced pronunciations, both English and native... Other works of art have pronunciations, e.g. Les Misérables, Mona Lisa... and they are protected pages! --92.184.96.116 (talk) 11:55, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think Michael Bednarek is right. There has to be a line on how much should go in the opening words of an article, and anything which distracts the reader from the important information should go elsewhere, or simply be cut.Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 12:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also think he's right. If necessary, the IPA can be put in a footnote. But....
a. Very few people can read the International Phonetic Alphabet
b. The English rendering is wrong. Literally NO ONE pronounces it in English il troh-vuh-tawr-ee with a long ee at the end , which is what the IPA that had been put there (ɪl ˌtroʊ vəˈtɔr i) translates to.
c. The first vowel rendered (oʊ) is an American English sound. It does not exist in British English where it would be rendered as əʊ.
In other words, not only is it clutter, it's useless and downright misleading clutter. Voceditenore (talk) 16:08, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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