Talk:Main Line (Long Island Rail Road)

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Main Line and Ronkonkoma[edit]

Thanks for creating the Main Line article: something I've wanted to do for some time but never got around to it. But I really don't like having the article talk about the route and also the Ronkonkoma Branch service as well. For example, not all Ronkonkoma trains travel on the Main Line once they're west of Jamaica. I prefer the arrangement that was done with the (now named) Atlantic Branch: description of the route and its stations—while having the service areas that talked about it (City Terminal Zone and Far Rockaway Branch) be separate articles. The analogy I'm going with is the New York City Subway-related articles: services and lines are separated. Tinlinkin 09:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While that split might work for the Main Line, it would not work for most of the services, whose names are identical to the names of the lines. Anyway, according to the maps and schedules, inbound "Ronkonkoma Branch" trains magically become "Port Jefferson Branch" trains at Hicksville and "Hempstead Branch" trains at Floral Park. This is not similar to the NYC Subway, where one train keeps the same service name along its entire route. --NE2 09:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Babylon station?[edit]

There was a Babylon station between Farmingdale and Deer Park, opened in December 1841[1] and discontinued on March 14, 1842, when Deer Park opened and stages began serving Babylon from Deer Park.[2][3][4] --NE2 00:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ "Long Island Railroad Company". Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Brooklyn, NY. 27 December 1841. p. 1.
  2. ^ "Long Island Railroad Company". Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Brooklyn, NY. 16 March 1842. p. 3.
  3. ^ "Long Island Railroad Company". Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Brooklyn, NY. 17 March 1842. p. 3.
  4. ^ "Long Island Railroad Company". Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Brooklyn, NY. 28 May 1842. p. 3.

Some early stations[edit]

12/27/41 3/17/42 5/28/42 8/15/42 6/24/44 7/26/44 4/25/45 5/1/48[1] 10/1/52[2]
Willow Tree x
Flushing Avenue
/Brushville 		x x x x x x x
Hyde Park x x x
Clowsville x
Hempstead/Branch
/Hempstead Branch 		x x x x x x x x x
Carll Place
/Carle Place
/Carl Place 		x x x x x x x
Westbury x x x x x x
Hicksville x x x x x x x x x
Jerusalem
Farmingdale x x x x x x x x x
Babylon x
Deer Park x x x x x x x x
Thompson x x x x
Brentwood
Suffolk x x x x x x
Nichols Road x
Lake Road
/Lakeland 		x x x
Waverly x
Medford x x x x x
Bellport
/Bell-Port 		x
Fire Place x
Milleville
/Yaphank 		x x x
Carman's River x
Wampmissic
/Wampmissick 		x
St. George Manor
/St. George's Manor
/Manor 		x x x x
Hulse Turnout x
Riverhead
/River Head 		x x x x
Jamesport
/James Port 		x x x
Mattetuck
/Mattituck 		x x x x
Cutchogue x x x
Hermitage x x
Southhold
/Southold 		x x x x
Greenport
/Green-Port 		x x x x

Sources [3] and [4] seem to conflict on intermediate station names:

  • Westbury - Carle Place
  • Hempstead - Clowesville
  • Flushing Avenue - De Lancy Avenue? Connecticut Avenue?
  • Union Course - Pennsylvania Avenue?

The earlier one matches known later names; I have no idea why the later one uses the alternate names. --NE2 02:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • What are the sources of the printed clippings [1][3][4] used as references?
  • What is/are the reference(s) for each dated column?
— Lentower (talk) 08:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

References

  1. ^ a b http://arrts-arrchives.com/images/qqatlave14a.jpg
  2. ^ http://arrts-arrchives.com/1852ptt.html
  3. ^ a b http://arrts-arrchives.com/images/qq1837bklnadvocatea.jpg
  4. ^ a b http://www.lirrhistory.com/feb2002/1837tt.jpg

Penn Station[edit]

I find it confusing that Penn Station is not included as part of the Main Line. The article makes it seem as if LIC is a terminating station for the Main Line, and that one might need to transfer from there to get anywhere else. Distances for stations are usually given from Penn, not Jamaica. Far more travellers board or disembark at Penn than at LIC, and the article obscures this vital point. I see no source that says LIC is the beginning & end of the Main Line. --JimWae (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see "East River Tunnels are currently owned by Amtrak", and maybe that accounts for their non-inclusion on the Main Line - this info could make article clearer--JimWae (talk) 21:47, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GoogleEarth shows a portion of line that appears to be single-tracked just east of LIC station--JimWae (talk) 21:50, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Main Line terminates in LIC because it's terminated in LIC since before Penn Station was built. Odd to call a 100-year-old station a Johnny-come-lately, but for the LIRR it is. Of course, Penn is a heck of a lot more important to the modern railroad, but it isn't part of the Main Line, whose physical definition is listed on various documents, including government records of ownership, such as the one about Amtrak owning Penn. It's not really confusing. Penn isn't part of the Main Line, period, even if most Main Line trains (and LIRR trains in general) use it.oknazevad (talk) 23:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"www.thelirrtoday.com" has become invitation only[edit]

This edit[1] removed many of the links to http://www.thelirrtoday.com/, which has become invitation only. This website was a useful source, including diagrams of the LIRR's interlocks.

If you can, please comment on why this changed (it's possible, it's a temporary problem).

If you can, please comment here on other sources of LIRR interlock maps/diagrams.

It be possible to use annotated Google Maps zoom-ins with colored overlay lines to replace the Interlock maps. — Lentower (talk) 08:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Still "invitation only" for me, right now. I reverted it back. — Lentower (talk) 21:51, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Lentower: It was switched to invitation only in July 2014. I recall that the site's operator said that he doesn't know when, if at all, he would get the site running again. He is User:Cluefinder42 on Wikipedia. Epic Genius (talk) 01:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Lentower:@Epicgenius: The website is in 'hibernation' currently as I don't have time to maintain it at the present moment. It is temporary and should be back soon, though I don't have a specific timeframe as to when it will be back (hopefully in the summer). The archived posts are still there if you'd like to look at them, you can get access at http://lists.thelirrtoday.com. Cluefinder42 (talk) 15:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Cluefinder42: Thanks for the link. Epic Genius (talk) 16:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Cluefinder42: Thanks, I have received an invitation, which I have accepted. @Lentower:, if you have a Google account, you can ask for an invitation as well. Epic Genius (talk) 21:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Cluefinder42: Thanks for the update & the invite offer. I'll pass on the later for now. — Lentower (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: et al:

  • Until the "www.thelirrtoday.com" links about the interlocks are again world-readable without a google account, they need to remain out of the article. This is not one of the rare exceptions to leaving a {{subscription required}} inline external link in an article.
  • I have marked the other remaining links with {{subscription required}} as they are used as sources supporting text in the article. (There is also the one in the External links section which is OK as is).
  • If someone want to find world-readable archived copies of any of the links, please do. Or find a more authoritative/reliable source than a blog (it's a great blog, but doesn't really meet WP:RS and other {{Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines}}.

— Lentower (talk) 22:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I'm fine with that. The LIRR Today links can become references when they do become public again. In the meantime, I will tag {{subscription required}} for other LIRR Today links around Wikipedia. Epic Genius (talk) 02:07, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Would make the transition back easier if you wrote a template, that could be toggled, before you do more of of the [Subscription required(help)] adds. If you want to go this way, I can suggest two templates to write, used in different ways. — Lentower (talk) 03:25, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We don't definitively know when Cluefinder will make LIRR Today active again. Epic Genius (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A search showed 262 articles that Cluefinder's blog could be referenced in. So it's a lot of edits to reflect the need for registration. If these edits include a template, to change the status from required to not-required in one edit to the template, instead of doing hundred of edits to all these articles again. The syntax might be |registration={{lirrtoday-yes-or-no}}, instead of adding |registration==yes, then maybe changing it in the future to |registration=no. Or/and use of {{lirrtoday-registration-status}} as an inlinte-tag at the end of that style of citation. Yes, writing and using the template(s) is a bit more work, but much less than doing all those re-edits. — Lentower (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds good. Epic Genius (talk) 01:37, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Search results for "The LIRR Today". Epic Genius (talk) 01:38, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I suggest switching to {{Registration required}} because sending out the Google account request to him is free. Epic Genius (talk) 14:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, {{Registration required}} is more accurate. — Lentower (talk) 14:41, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Station locations are wrong[edit]

In April 2020 someone changed all the station locations (distances from NY Penn) to agree with MTA's website, which is wrong. MTA's site says Jamaica is 9.3 miles from NY Penn, but as anyone can confirm, Jamaica is 10.3 miles from Penn, as the crow flies. Old timetables say it's 11.3 miles by rail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:644:680:43D0:D159:865B:F2FC:C025 (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You got a source? Because "anyone can confirm" requires a source. oknazevad (talk) 17:54, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can measure the straight-line distance on Google Maps; anyone can get the lat-lons at the two stations from Google Maps and calculate the distance, if you don't trust Google's calculation.
Dunno where an old LIRR timetable is online -- until the 1970s (?) LIRR timetables showed station mileages from NY, and they said Jamaica was 11.3 miles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:644:680:43D0:7532:79A4:6B83:F68D (talk) 18:10, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Oknazevad well, I think the IP is right. See my comment at Talk:Long Island Rail Road#Mileage. Mackensen (talk) 13:47, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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