Talk:Mario Del Monaco

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Criticism[edit]

I have restored the quote from Magda Olivero as Del Monaco WAS criticised as well as adored. Too many BIG tenors on Wikipedia have their groupies who will not listen to any comments (Antonio Paoli for example seems to be a near God and the page is locked - critics had their say now and then, but the "Big Tenor Mafia" silence any comments), Del Monaco was great but some people didn't think him perfect - they might be wrong, they may be right, but it was said. Not to include such comments is rather like saying "Hitler was a nice man" and ignoring what people said about him! Typical Wikipedia - "don't say anything I think is horrible (if true) about my idol." That's what's so bad about Wikipedia - just obsessive's protecting their idols, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.101.12.88 (talk) 22:22, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is an encyclopedic place not a location for worth deprived opinions. Kaja Enäveri (talk) 11:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wait! Whaaaaat? Did you just compare adoration for Mario Del Monaco with nazis who still love Hitler in your response??? The OperaVagabond (talk) 06:23, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

del Monaco as Heldentenor[edit]

I removed the "Heldentenor" category for Mario del Monaco. His loud voice was certainly heroic in proportions, but the term "heldentenor" is applied to exponents of German opera, and Richard Wagner's oeuvre in particular. None of this material was in del Monaco's repertoire.68.72.109.75 13:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I undid your removement of the category, since del Monaco had a typical "heldentenor" voice - the term is not reserved for the german repertoire. Verdi's Otello, del Monaco's trademark role, belongs to it just like Lohengrin - the singer's only complete Wagner-role. And the way he sang Radames or Canio had nothing to do with belcanto.--Vully 21:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Del Monaco had another complete Wagner role: Siegmund in Die Walkure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.155.224 (talk) 22:39, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 02:41, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mario del Monaco → Mario Del Monaco – He spelt his surname with capitals on both Del and Monaco. The Italian article has it that way. The Official Mario Del Monaco Website has it that way. And we have it that way all throughout the article - except for the title itself. That needs fixing. I tried to move it but it needs an admin. Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 23:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. According to this google ngram, usage appears to be split. My personal opinion is that when the sources aren't clear one way or the other, we should default to how the person actually spelled their name. Jenks24 (talk) 09:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. But I'd go further. We should adopt the subject's own spelling of their own name in all cases, and if others choose to spell it differently, too bad for them. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 11:32, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain how you would apply this rule to subjects, like William Shakespeare, who are demonstrably unable to spell their own name the same way twice. ;->

He's a very minor figure as an actor, and has no credentials whatsoever as a writer. Hardly deserving of an article at all. But since he does in fact have one, he's the sort of exception that proves the rule. We'd have to use the most common spelling, and we do. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 12:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But Support, per Grove's. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:38, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, because that's how it should be. Modern Italian always capitalises the particle "De" and its derivatives in surnames: Edmondo De Amicis, Ivan Della Mea, Massimo D'Alema. --Theurgist (talk) 07:19, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mario del Monaco wrote "del" without the capital, thus it is the only authentic source... Kaja Enäveri (talk) 11:15, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One of a Quartet?[edit]

No. No solo singer is "one of a quartet". Change that. Please. There may have been four great tenors in that era, but they were not a quartet. That is a silly term to use for a person who sang as a soloist. The person who put that term in this article is not a musician, nor intelligent. Remove it! Please, and thank you. RCLW 208.72.122.127 (talk) 16:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I concur, and changed "a quartet of" to "four". Sam Sailor (talk) 15:57, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Disputed revisions[edit]

I am reproducing below the message I posted in user Kaja Enäveri's talk page referring to the rollback of some of her edits.

Dear Kaja Enäveri, I regret having had to revert twice your edits at the article on Mario Del Monaco. Both times I pointed out the reasons why I was intervening. The second time, in particular, I wrote: "Undid several subsequent good faith edits by Kaja Enäveri as they did not comply with Wikipedia principles (they cited no sources while arbitrarily expunging all those previously mentioned; added non neutral laudatory statements; cut sourced information out; etc.)"

If you want to complain about my behaviour, and you do not know Wikipedia habits, I could suggest either you post your complaints in the WikiProject Opera talk page so that other users can intervene, or you contact administrators.

I am very sorry indeed. --Jeanambr (talk) 15:32, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Having Kaja Enäveri substantially restored her revisions for the third time, I believe they ought to be reverted once again.--Jeanambr (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Quote from Magda Olivero[edit]

User The OperaVagabond has removed sourced information from the article, claiming "it has no place here", as it contains such "a passive aggressive quote" as cannot be found in any articles about other major opera singers. On Wikipedia, however, one is not supposed to compare different articles with each other, but just to edit sourced information, and no one is entitled to remove any piece of information based on reliable sources just because they do not agree with it. Therefore, if The Opera Vagabond believe the article does not do Del Monaco justice, I think they just ought to report further critical judgments from authoritative sources (which certainly won't be lacking) and not to cancel those already present in the article, however unsatisfactory they may be or appear.--Jeanambr (talk) 09:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You cite an interview of Magda Olivero with Stefan Zucker as your “reliable source”? Just in case you are unfamiliar with his work, look up his singing career on YouTube.

Regarding the alleged quotes by Magda Olivero, do we have any audio/video of this interview with Olivero. How did Zucker arrive to this point with Olivero? Was this part of his radio show? Did he lead the 90+ year-old Olivero in his interview to respond to loaded questions? I’d personally like to hear the whole interview for context. Unfortunately, the Olivero quote, if it is even real, only serves to hide your own personal bigotry against Mario del Monaco. You place Olivero’s quote at the end of your article, IN BIG FONT LETTERING, to act as the “final word” on the career and technique of Mario del Monaco. How you used this quote is what I objected to.

Where are the quotes from Tebaldi, Callas, Simionato, Rise Stevens, Lauri-Volpi, Pavarotti, even the New York Times, among many other colleagues, contemporaries and sources?

It’s obvious that you are not a fan of Mario del Monaco and that’s fine, he had a lot of enemies during his lifetime, and it seems like this same hatred continues 40 years after his death. What I don’t understand is how you became the English speaking gatekeeper for Mario del Monaco? The OperaVagabond (talk) 06:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have outlined above what I believe are the guidelines for editing on Wikipedia. They are based generally on the 'Five pillars', and in particular on the principles of 'reliable sources' and 'neutral point of view'. Each editor should abide by these guidelines in good faith, because they alone can ensure the constant improvement of our encyclopaedia. Given the above, who I am and what my personal opinions are shouldn't matter.

However, I am not surely a special fan of Del Monaco, but I am not a hater either; and I can't say how I first came across the article on him. I do believe he was one of the greatest tenors of the mid-twentieth century and, in my personal opinion, the century’s most impressive Otello. I also know he was much disputed. The simple quote from Olivero (which in the end only says that his vocal technique was different from hers and more complicated) does not probably do him justice, and further evaluations by competent critics should be added. Which I hope The OperaVagabond or others will shortly do.

I am instead a real fan of Magda Olivero, but I know she was much disputed as well, and I try not to be misled by my personal opinions. When I read last week Zucker’s statement to the effect that some American critics wrote of her with derision, regarding her vocalism as like Florence Foster Jenkins’s (which is definitely far from praise), I could not help immediately reporting it in the Italian article on Magda Olivero, and I am going to cite it in the English article too. For, if such disputes about Olivero have existed, a serious encyclopaedia article dealing with her cannot fail to mention them. In the end, it will be the listeners of the future that will each form their own opinion of her worth (and of Mario Del Monaco's, too) by themselves.--Jeanambr (talk) 09:12, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]