Talk:Michael Jackson/Archive 41

Archive 35

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Archive 41

Add title list including "controversies"

I think it is a REQUIREMENT to be able to see if a famous person, or company has "controversies" when reading Wikipedia title list up front! 50.220.95.37 (talk) 21:17, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

There is no such requirement. His personal life has two sections with abuse allegations in title, and his death also has one. Duplicated the content from those 3 sections into a controversies section wouldn't make sense, if you are suggestion to move it from there to a separate controversy section, then there would need to have a consensus to do so. I think it is fine the way it is, and as a featured article, I believe previous editors preferred this format as is. Also see WP:CRITS which advises against this. WikiVirusC^(talk) 21:58, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Change Lead Section?

I have suggested changes to the lead. This one:

Michael Joseph Jackson (August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009) was an American singer, songwriter, dancer, and philanthropist. Dubbed the "King of Pop", he is regarded as one of the most significant cultural figures of the 20th century. Over a four-decade career, his contributions to music, dance, and fashion, along with his publicized personal life, made him a global figure in popular culture. Jackson influenced artists across many music genres; through stage and video performances, he popularized complicated dance moves such as the moonwalk, to which he gave the name, as well as the robot.

should become...

Michael Joseph Jackson (August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009) was an American singer, songwriter, dancer, and philanthropist. Known as the "King of Pop", he is regarded as one of the most significant cultural icons of the 20th century. In a four-decade career, his contributions to music, dance, and fashion, along with his publicized personal life, has made him a global figure in popular culture. Jackson influenced artists across many music genres; through stage and video performances, he popularized complicated dance moves such as the moonwalk, to which he gave the name, as well as the robot.

Changes are marked in bold. What do you think? RMXY (talk) 11:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

While using "icons" here feels like puffery, I have no qualms with the other proposed changes. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 11:59, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright. I fixed the lead, except that I didn't change "figures" to "icons". RMXY (talk) 23:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

This wasn't a good change. Both "has" and "had" (as the lead had it before I changed it) are grammatically wrong here. I've restored it to use the simple past (no "has" or "had"). Popcornfud (talk) 10:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, but I should add that changing "dubbed" to the more plain-English "known as" is definitely an improvement — "dubbed" is a silly journalese word. Popcornfud (talk) 11:54, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Conversion to Islam

In November 2008, The Sun and reported that Jackson officially converted to Islam and held a ceremony in a friend's mansion is Los Angeles where he wore an Islamic garb and an Imam's hat to pledge allegiance to the new religion. Daily Mail also published an article titled Michael Jackson 'becomes a Muslim and changes name to Mikaeel'. Times Of India, The Economic Times and India today have also reported his conversion (Michael Jackson has converted to Islam: Report, Michael Jackson converts to Islam and Michael Jackson to be buried in Muslim tradition: Report). Luban the truth (talk) 17:45, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

See FAQ #1 at the top of this talk page. This is a non event that can be traced back to poor quality tabloid sourcing, so it is unsuitable for adding to the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:01, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Given the abundance of sources, it's crucial that this subject is included in the article; otherwise, the world will only have insufficient knowledge about Michael.

(his sister later converted to Islam): https://www.hindustantimes.com/music/janet-jackson-is-now-muslim-10-celebrities-you-didn-t-know-converted-to-islam/story-1F2zVgZ1nnEevX4OkDWeLK.html

Source Links: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1088225/Michael-Jackson-Muslim-changes-Mikaeel.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5684999/Michael-Jackson-was-he-influenced-by-the-Nation-of-Islam.html#:~:text=Jackson%20reportedly%20converted%20to%20Islam%20and%20changed%20his%20name%20to%20Mikaeel%20in%202008%2C%20although%20he%20never%20talked%20publicly%20about%20his%20faith.

https://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2010%2F01%2F21%2F98036#:~:text=In%20November%202008%2C%20The%20Sun,allegiance%20to%20the%20new%20religion.

https://dailypost.ng/2017/04/04/converted-islam-michael-jacksons-brother-jermaine/

https://m.economictimes.com/michael-jackson/michael-jackson-to-be-buried-in-muslim-tradition-report/articleshow/4727761.cms

https://www.indiatoday.in/latest-headlines/story/michael-jackson-converts-to-islam-33787-2008-11-21

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/michael-jackson-has-converted-to-islam-report/articleshow/3740517.cms

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/industries-culture-society/michael-jackson-converts-islam-report-82408 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luban the truth (talk • contribs) 18:57, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

This is classic churnalism. The sources here aren't saying anything new, they are simply repeating what The Sun (United Kingdom) said in the story with the headline "The Way You Mecca Me Feel" in November 2008.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:31, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Infobox Image

I believe there should be a new infobox image of him. The one that is used currently would be a better fit for a specific section of the article. There are plenty of images of him with the appropriate license that are not only in colour but also depict his face better and show him performing live at the height of his glory that represent him as a global icon Bryantriplex (talk) 00:01, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

See Talk:Michael_Jackson/Archive_40#Change_infobox_photo. The most recent discussion did not produce a strong consensus for a change.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:25, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I think this image would be great. It's Michael Jackson at his peak preforming during the Victory Tour. 2601:5C2:4380:7310:913A:2C4B:35CB:4EE7 (talk) 02:54, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The image above on Twitter would be copyrighted. Due to WP:NFCC, the infobox image has to be one that is on Wikimedia Commons as it it free to use.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:13, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

How about this image? 83.53.193.221 (talk) 18:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

This has been used as the infobox image in the dim and distant past. I think it's OK, but the consensus seems to be for one of him performing.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

And how about the enhaced version of the current one? 83.53.75.73 (talk) 14:33, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

The enhanced version has too much noise reduction applied to it. This has reduced the graininess of the original image at the expense of reducing the detail.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Ok 83.52.76.135 (talk) 07:13, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Michael Jackson’s middle name

The article states that Michael’s middle name was “Joseph”; however, in the vast majority of personal/legal documents (passports, driver’s licenses, birth certificate, court transcripts, etc.), continuously list his middle name as being “Joe”, not “Joseph”. Many members of Michael’s family, such as Jermaine in his book You Are Not Alone, have stated that his middle name was again, Joe, and Jermaine refers to the rumour that Michael’s middle name was Joseph as a “myth”. It seems that although “Joe” was his legal middle name, Michael often liked to use “Joseph” whenever he had to mention his full name (as he does in his Will and during court appearances); nonetheless, I suggest that his full name be changed to “Michael Joe Jackson”. Gluepix (talk) 06:21, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

To my knowledge, "Joe" was part of an alternate name he used for various things while "Joseph" was his formal middle name, though I could be mistaken. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 11:56, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

It’s the opposite, Joseph was the variant he’d use in various situations, while Joe was his formal middle name; again, “Joe” is what appears in his birth certificate and the vast majority of other personal/legal documents mentioning his full name. Gluepix (talk) 01:54, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory junk ....Michael Joseph Jackson is dead and Michael Joe Jackson is alive," will be the next thing claimed.

And a third suggested: "Michael Joseph Jackson must be the double of the real King." Moxy- 02:10, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Are you on crack, my guy? I’m just saying that his middle name was actually Joe. There’s so much evidence backing that up that if I shared it all, I’d end up flooding the talk page. Gluepix (talk) 19:46, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Neveling, Andre (2020-06-25). "Is Michael Jackson alive? How bizarre conspiracy theories, Jackson family dramas and daughter Paris continue to make headlines 11 years after MJ's death". South China Morning Post. Retrieved 2023-06-16. Moxy- 23:18, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I think it should be changed to Joe as well. According to a tweet from LaToya, (which I could not find at the moment), she claimed that his middle name was Joe and the reason for that was to disassociate him from his father, Joseph. Mashpotatofries29 (talk) 00:28, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Posthumous allegations should be mentioned in the lead

This article's lead has been downplaying the significance of the posthumous allegations against Jackson by solely mentioning the investigations and trial from the late 90s to mid 2000s. It should at least be mentioned that it gained intense public interest and received mixed reactions from the public, as this is still a topic frequently discussed today in regards to Jackson and his career. TheXuitts (talk) 18:21, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Leads can only be so long. Abuse allegations are already mentioned. The posthumous allegations seem like they are part of the detailed continuation of that rather than a separate topic that deserves separate lead space. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 18:44, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I would oppose padding the lede (yes, lede) with such content. The posthumous allegations are already substantially shakier than the lifetime allegations for which legal proceedings found an absence of liability/guilt. We would have to go beyond documenting them to documenting their failure to sway the courts and the public, which would swell the lede even further. BD2412 T 18:56, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Just as other have stated, the lead is already long enough and his allegations has already been mentioned thoroughly in the lead. Alessiorom13 (talk) 12:05, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

There is no significance. The allegations downplay themselves in my opinion. There was already a consensus on this and nothing since that consensus has changed. TruthGuardians (talk) 13:59, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2023

Under "death" in the 2nd paragraph it says "Jackson was administered propofol, lorazepam, and midazolam;" That appears to say that the paramedics administered that. It should say "Jackson had been administered..." 23.240.140.73 (talk) 17:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:14, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 July 2023

i would like to edit this master pieces to add more information for educational reasons 2A02:C7C:6A66:4E00:B8EA:6CAC:E8EA:2C8E (talk) 19:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Not done: The request needs to be more specific and backed by reliable sources. Also, the article is protected so an IP user will have to make a request here on the talk page.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:43, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2023

Michael’s middle name is Joe as confirmed by various family members. Joe is the middle name on all of his legal documents, etc… 2603:7000:7907:B570:B055:C7F2:4B9D:E204 (talk) 05:05, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. We have sources showing "Joseph". Meters (talk) 05:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

TV Concert Broadcasts

Could something be added on the page about Michael's television concert events. For starters, Japan Tour '87 (1987 broadcast in Japan of the September 26, 1987 show in Yokohama), Live In Concert In Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour (1992 worldwide broadcast of the Bucharest show on October 1, 1992, which was released on DVD in 2005), HIStory: Live In Bucharest: 1996 (1996 broadcast in Romania of the performance in Bucharest),HIStory: Live In Kuala Lumpur 1996 (TV1000 broadcast of the October 29, 1996 concert), Live In Auckland (1996 Zew Zealand broadcast of the November 11, concert (Notable for being the last known recording of "Come Together" / "D.S." medley live)), HIStory Live (1997 worldwide broadcast and canceled DVD release of the July 6, 1997 show in Munich, Germany), Live In Gothenburg 1997 (1997 Swedish broadcast of the show in Gothenburg by TV1000), Michael Jackson: 30th Anniversary Celebration (2001-2002 broadcasts of Michael Jackson's 30th Anniversary Celebration in New York City), HIStory: Live In Tunis 1996 (2010 broadcast that aired in Tunisia).

This is just an idea and might be to much to ask for but it's worth asking about. 2601:481:8600:5260:D193:A99E:6A70:D04 (talk) 06:44, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 September 2023

"... was viewed by more than an estimated 2.5 billion people globally" does not read correctly. Suggest that this is changed to e.g. "... was estimated to have been viewed by more than 2.5 billion people globally", or any other logical wording that editors prefer. 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:C190:26E8:7937:4CD0 (talk) 12:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done Good idea. Popcornfud (talk) 13:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 August 2023

Add this to the end of the 1st paragraph of #Life and career:

Michael and his siblings were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. He remained committed to his faith into adulthood.

 Not done: This is already mentioned in the article. In § Early life and the Jackson 5, "[Katherine Esther Jackson] was a Jehovah's Witness.", and in § Increased tabloid speculation, "In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses." —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 14:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

@TechnoSquirrel69:

§ Early Life only mentions his mom being a Jehovah's Witness, not Michael and his siblings. I also want to correct the other section. The claims of him disassociating himself from the religion were based on unconfirmed reports and were likely false. It would be worth mentioning since he never said it himself. "Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah’s Witness into adulthood, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s." -source In the Beliefnet article, Michael said himself that he remained religious his whole life as well as during parenthood. He continued doing missionary work until 1991 (because he had a tour) and never mentioned leaving in 1987. In 2001, he confirmed he was still a JW. In 2007, he thanked Jehovah for his writing.

To reflect this information, can changes be made to § Increased tabloid speculation:

(The last line is unclear whether he denounced the religion or the video. He denounced the video. I'm also not sure if the last 2 lines should be mentioned at all, since it's not confirmed that he left.)

In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses.[135] Katherine Jackson said this might have been because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video.[136] Michael had denounced it in a Witness publication in 1984.[137]

to

Jackson remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life despite unconfirmed reports in 1987 claiming he disassociated himself. In a Beliefnet article, he stated he continued doing missionary work up to 1991. In a 2001 TV Guide interview, he confirmed he was still a Jehovah's Witness. Katherine Jackson believed he left because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video.[136] Michael had denounced the video in a Witness publication in 1984.[137] Squaredtrig (talk) 21:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

This has languished for weeks and is not implementable due to an unresolved objection. Deactivating edit request. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:22, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I was instructed to make a new post, which I did a few days ago on September 26. technosquirrel did not reply back to my comment, but I didn't see an objection? Squaredtrig (talk) 02:14, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 October 2023

There should be an update to the Death#Posthumous child sexual abuse allegations section.

At the end of the second paragraph, the following should be added:

"In 2020, a state law passed in California which granted plaintiffs in child sex abuse cases an additional period to file lawsuits. In October 2020 and again in April 2021, the Los Angeles County Superior Court ruled that MJJ Productions Inc. and MJJ Ventures Inc. employees were not legally obligated to protect the two men from Jackson. In August 2023, California’s Second District Court of Appeal overturned the ruling, and the case was approved to move forward to trial court."

With the following citation:

• https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/arts/music/michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-lawsuits.html

More citations if deemed necessary:

• https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-lawsuits-revived-by-appeals-court
• https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/19/michael-jackson-lawsuit-leaving-neverland-hbo-documentary
• https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-18/michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-lawsuits-revived-by-appeals-court

Luiysia (talk) 14:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:55, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 September 2023

In #Life and career under §Early life and the Jackson 5 (1958–1975), add this to the end of the 1st paragraph:

Michael and his siblings were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. He remained committed to his faith into adulthood.

And also in #Life and career under §Increased tabloid speculation (1986–1987) in the last paragraph, change:

In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses.[135] Katherine Jackson said this might have been because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video.[136] Michael had denounced it in a Witness publication in 1984.[137]

to

Jackson remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life despite unconfirmed reports in 1987 claiming he disassociated himself. In a Beliefnet article, he stated he continued doing missionary work up to 1991. In a 2001 TV Guide interview, he confirmed he was still a Jehovah's Witness. Katherine Jackson believed he left because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video.[136] Michael had denounced the video in a Witness publication in 1984.[137]

Reasoning:

§Early Life: Only mentions his mom being a Jehovah's Witness, not Michael and his siblings.

§Increased tabloid speculation: The claims of him disassociating himself from the religion were based on unconfirmed reports and were likely false. It should be mentioned since he never said it himself. "Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah’s Witness into adulthood, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s." -source In the Beliefnet article, Michael said himself that he remained religious his whole life as well as during parenthood. He continued doing missionary work until 1991 (because he had a tour) and never mentioned leaving in 1987. In a 2001 interview with TV Guide Magazine, he confirmed he was still a JW. Here is the full quote: TVG: How did you avoid self-destruction? MJ [Michael Jackson]: I think religion entered in? TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? MJ: Yeah. In 2007, he thanked Jehovah for his writing.

I think it's a bit tricky, because one can remain religious, and remain a Christian specifically, and thank Jehovah, without actively belonging to a specific denomination. BD2412 T 04:48, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@BD2412: In a 2001 interview with TV Guide Magazine, he clearly stated he was a Jehovah's Witness. To quote: "TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? Michael Jackson: Yeah. His Wikipedia page currently states In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses which should be changed because it was never confirmed that he left. Squaredtrig (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Examining the sources provided by Squaredtrig: the first one doesn't say Jackson remained a Jehovah's Witness. The second one (an essay written by Jackson) was published on Beliefnet, which appears to be a website about faith in general, and Jackson doesn't get specific about which denomination he belongs to at the time of writing.

However, the third source seems pretty unambiguous. I'm not seeing any reason why we couldn't simply keep the current wording and add this at the end: "In 2001, Jackson told an interviewer he was still a Jehovah's Witness."

Regarding the current claim in the article that In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses, that's cited to an Ebony source which writes: Although he has disassociated himself as one of the religious society's ministers who gives exclusive devotion to Jehovah, I don't actually know what that means — is every Jehovah's Witness a "minister" (ie it means he was no longer a member of the organization), or is that a type of position within the organization? Popcornfud (talk) 11:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

§Early Life request: The TV Guide source says he did remain a JW as an adult. At the very least, I suggest changing to state that Michael and his siblings were raised as JWs rather than their mom.

§Increased tabloid speculation request: The Beliefnet essay was posted in December 2000 so we can deduce that he belonged to the JW because of the 2001 TV Guide source. He did JW pioneering work up to 1991, one wouldn't do this unless they were somewhat still associated. I think that should be mentioned too. The Ebony source about the ministers is ambiguous. I suggest changing to the original request above or to In 1987, Jackson reportedly disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses. @Popcornfud Squaredtrig (talk) 23:05, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Deactivating edit request as this is still being discussed and there does not appear to be a specific edit ready to go live right now. Several extended-confirmed users have already participated in the discussion and can implement the change themselves if necessary. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:55, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

As I said above, I can't see any reason why we couldn't add "In 2001, Jackson told an interviewer he was still a Jehovah's Witness", as this is supported by a reliable source, so I've added that to the article. As this contradicts the existing statement in the article, that Jackson had disassociated himself from the church, I've also amended that to just say that this is what Ebony reported, rather than keep it in Wikipedia's voice. Popcornfud (talk) 04:15, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 November 2023

Cut out and add some songs, while replacing others. When mentioning specific songs in the life and career section, only use the songs most culturally impactful in the article. The songs that make Michael Jackson “one of the most significant cultural figures of the 20th century”. Examples would be adding more songs from Dangerous like In the Closet, Jam, Will You Be There, and the titular song, mentioning Another Part of Me in the Captain EO section, and cutting out Rockin' Robin and Got to Be There and replacing them with Never Can Say Goodbye and Human Nature, and these are only a few examples. Just so this wiki can be properly used as the definitive resource guide and general information on the King of Pop. Reply back to me after you make these changes and I’ll see if any more specific songs need to be included/excluded. 172.116.32.173 (talk) 04:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done. Your request is far too vague and is not accompanied by links to reliable sources that verify that the songs you want to add are culturally impactful and that the songs you want to exclude are not culturally impactful. Cullen328 (talk) 04:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 November 2023

Make mention of not just the music videos, but his live television and concert performances. Like add the latter to the sentence about Thriller and add “he continued to innovate with the videos AND live performances for Bad, Dangerous and HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I.” Also cut out Invincible all together since it had only one semi hit single and music video, and only one live performance. 172.116.32.173 (talk) 04:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

• Not done, for the same reasons listed above. Binksternet (talk) 06:01, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 December 2023

I would like to redo the page because the lifeline is wrong 101.183.193.4 (talk) 06:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 06:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 december 2023

the sales of mj and his albums are wrong because mj sold one billion records and thriller sold more than 100 million units but in this page it is mentioned only 70 million Aayan v anand (talk) 16:08, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done the billion claim has previously been rejected as a dubious inflation, and chances are the same goes for 100M. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:58, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Posthumous sales/releases

Regarding this revert:

I think it makes more sense to have the "Posthumous releases" section before the "Posthumous sales" section. This is for three reasons:

• It's basically sensible — you say what was released, then you say how well it sold.
• It matches the standard structure of music articles, which put information about a particular release first, then its sales.
• Most importantly IMO, the Jackson estate is mentioned for the first time in the "Posthumous releases" section, but isn't Wikilinked or explained. The full context for what this isn't given until the start of the "Posthumous sales" section. To me it makes sense to begin the discussion of all posthumous releases (including sales) with an explanation of the entity that handles them.

Popcornfud (talk) 20:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

The posthumous sales section is about how his death impacted his record sales, and it’s mostly about Jacksons’ catalog sales within one year of his death. During this period, only one soundtrack was released posthumously as MJ and its sales are minimal in this one-year sales report which is described in the posthumous sales section. TheWikiholic (talk) 14:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

We're clearly not going to agree, so I've just gone ahead and wikilinked the Jackson estate on first mention. IMO it should still be linked on the second mention too, because this is the section of the article where it's properly introduced and explained as a concept. Popcornfud (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Native American heritage claims

@User:Jonathan Deamer I was wondering why you feel the category for American people who self-identify as being of Native American descent is "not supported by body text"? Thank you. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 03:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bohemian Baltimore Thanks for reaching out! The only mention of the terms "Native American", "[American] Indian" etc. in the article itself that I could find is the following:

Joe's [MJ's father's] great-grandfather, July "Jack" Gale, was a US Army scout; family lore held that he was also a Native American medicine man.

I didn't feel "family lore" about an ancestor was the same as Jackson self-identifying, which is what the category states.

Please do let me know if I've missed something else in the body text! Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

RE: Family lore

The source does not say ”family lore” – it presents Gale’s ethnicity as fact. Maybe the word ”family lore” should be removed?

Quote: Joe's great-grandfather, July “Jack” Gale, a Native American medicine man and a US Army scout, married a black slave named Gina during the years before the Civil War. 93.160.65.62 (talk) 12:08, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Well spotted! I can't access the source to verify, but that sounds like a fair change. Once that's made, a category along the lines of "descended from" rather than "self-identifying" would work. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 12:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 January 2024

Change 'Satan' in Associated acts to 'The Jackson 5'. 2600:1700:9050:6990:4C93:EE8C:EA7F:97B9 (talk) 02:01, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: I'm not finding a 'satan' anywhere in the text. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 03:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Third paragraph in the lead should be trimmed and more accomplishments should be highlighted instead

I find it a bit puzzling that the longest paragraph in the lead is dedicated entirely to baseless allegations, acquittals, settlments and his untimely death. It should be trimmed down so that more of his career accomplishments can be included in the lead instead. After all, many consider this individual the most successful and influential artist of all time. That should be highlighted more than his legal troubles. Instantwatym (talk) 16:56, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Not sure how much you would opt to trim, but keep in mind the lead's other paragraphs discuss accomplishments, and it would feel like whitewashing to get rid of allegations altogether when they did affect his career (and later led to reclusion after being acquitted). The controversy with Conrad Murray was also quite a big deal when he's been blamed for the death by giving excessive amounts of propofol. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 18:05, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

time to choose another 88' pic?

I love the default picture but don't you think it's time to update with a clear picture of it or another 1988 pic from what is considered his prime? 2603:7000:7907:B570:8C7F:8C6F:C16F:5364 (talk) 04:46, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes 66.44.243.19 (talk) 00:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

This image [1] is only four years earlier. Just cropped it so feel free to make adjustments. What do you all think? 웃OO 02:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Infobox photo

Can we get another infobox photo? The current one is black and white. I've been thinking of uploading a new photo. Ccole2006 (talk) 03:01, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Thriller sales

thriller sold 100 million records but in this page it is written only 70 million 2409:40E3:69:C437:BCD6:5260:C92:EB22 (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done 100M has previously been rejected as a dubious inflation. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:05, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

The threshold for album sales is the certified amount is at least 30% of the claimed sales. If sales were certified up to 70 million, then it would be reasonable to add back the 100 million. But as of right now since Sony has yet to provide the certifications or means for how they came up with that figure, so even most fans chock it up as inflated Never17 (talk) 22:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Worldwide sales

The worldwide sales for Michael Jackson need to changed from 400 million to 500 million, to reflect the list of best selling artists page. As a consensus was already reached that he was long past the time for the figure to be updated Never17 (talk) 22:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

 Done I have recently made some minor improvements to the article, including the update of that figure, as well as fixing some references that lacked the authors' names. Salvabl (talk) 22:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Great work as always Never17 (talk) 22:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Errors in references to The Mercury News

Hello. There are two references to The Mercury News in this article. One is from 1988 and the other from 2010. The name of the newspaper in those years wasn't "The Mercury News", but "The San Jose Mercury News", so its name should be changed in the references. And one title has another error: the abbreviation for the United States should be capitalized. KamilaF89 (talk) 01:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)