Talk:Norma Shearer filmography

A fact from Norma Shearer filmography appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 December 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that actress Norma Shearer posed for a glamor photoshoot to convince her producer-husband Irving Thalberg (both pictured) that her sexual allure would transcend to film for the lead role in The Divorcee?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Norma Shearer filmography.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:47, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Norma Shearer with husband Irving Thalberg

Norma Shearer (pictured with husband Irving Thalberg) was offered the role of Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind, but turned it down after backlash from her fans?

Quirk, Lawrence J. (1988). Norma : The Story of Norma Shearer (1st ed.). New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 0-312-01798-7. pp 193-194 ... (re the offer for her to play Scarlett O'Hara) Norma let Howard Strickland and the Selznick people spread the word via strategically placed items in the gossip columns, that she was leaning towards accepting the role. At that, her fans came alive - they flooded the mails from Maine to California, from Washington state to Florida, begging her to back off. The letters' basic tone was, "You're too nice a person to play such a bitch!" ... she decided ... to withdraw her name from consideration. Years later ... she indicated that her rejection of Scarlett might have been a major mistake

Reviewed: Madwoman (book)

5x expanded by Maile66 (talk). Self-nominated at 00:25, 30 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]

The list has been recently expanded, there are no copyvio or plagiarism concern, and reliable sources are used. I think a hook about The Divorcee could be more interesting, specifically about how she arranged a George Hurrell photoshoot to prove to her husband that she had the sex appeal necessary for the role. It would provide a stronger reason for why Shearer and her husband are pictured, and I just find it a hooky idea. I would also add that little factoid to the list's lead. That's just my suggestion as there is nothing wrong or bad about the suggested hook. I hope this helps. Aoba47 (talk) 23:59, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe something like: ~~... that Norma Shearer (left) did a George Hurrell photoshoot to convince her husband Irving Thalberg (right) she had the sex appeal to star in The Divorcee?~~ Aoba47 (talk) 00:29, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I am open to whatever works here. The hook you suggest is fine with me. Also, we could swap out images, if someone saw one that's better. I chose this image, mainly because it's so clear and would work on the main page. I do believe it's the best image of the two of them together. — Maile (talk) 00:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: how about this?

ALT1 ... that Norma Shearer (left in image) did a George Hurrell photoshoot to convince her producer husband Irving Thalberg (right in image) that her sexual allure would transcend to film for the lead role in The Divorcee? — Maile (talk) 01:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. Thank you for your prompt response and for addressing everything so quickly. This looks ready to go to me. Aoba47 (talk) 01:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maile, the bolded link is misleading; it appears to link to her bio, not this filmography article. Yoninah (talk) 17:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you are saying. The bolded link goes straight to the filmography, which includes the sourcing and mention of the hook information . Are you saying it should go to her bio, which is not the article I've nominated here? — Maile (talk) 18:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm saying it's an Easter egg link; it doesn't go to the nominated article. Instead you need to bold words in the hook that relate to the article. Some people write: Norma Shearer's film roles. Or you can pipe the link through other words. Here's a try, though I don't think this hook wording lends itself to piping. I also don't understand why you need to mention George Hurrell, whom few readers will recognize.
ALT2: ... that actress Norma Shearer did a photoshoot to convince her producer-husband Irving Thalberg (both pictured) that her sexual allure would transcend to film for the lead role in The Divorcee?
BTW you have the same problem in your hook for Template:Did you know nominations/Anna May Wong on film and television. There too you should link Wong separately and pipe the link on "starring lead", or rewrite the hook. Yoninah (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*

@Aoba47: since you suggested the ALT1 hook wording, you cannot approve the hook per Rule H2. We'll see if we need a new reviewer after we finish reformulating the hook. Yoninah (talk) 18:15, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Thank you for the update. I was unaware of this as I generally do not participate in the DYK space. Aoba47 (talk) 18:18, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for catching this. I'm OK with ALT2. — Maile (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Maile66: Thank you. I might also suggest:
ALT3: ... that actress Norma Shearer posed for a glamor photoshoot to convince her producer-husband Irving Thalberg (both pictured) that her sexual allure would transcend to film for the lead role in The Divorcee?
We need a new reviewer for ALT2 or ALT3. Are you available, Kingsif? Yoninah (talk) 18:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like ALT3 best. — Maile (talk) 18:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Me too. Striking ALT2. Yoninah (talk) 19:53, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for clarifying this, and apologies again for my mistake. Aoba47 (talk) 01:09, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47 Meh ... I made the same mistake, and I've been at this DYK stuff for 9 years. Stuff happens ... — Maile (talk) 01:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to restructure the article so that all the prose isn't in the lead? Including moving the detail for this hook down to the relevant section - the article is already nicely sectioned up, so it wouldn't be too much work. Or even a "acting style" or something section before the filmography. It's an impressive article, but doesn't meet MOS:LEAD. Kingsif (talk) 12:02, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring the layout isn't a DYK requirement, but lists are done with the prose at the top. Featured Lists are the role model for how this should be done. Please see John Barrymore on stage, screen and radio or Peter Sellers on stage, radio, screen and record. — Maile (talk) 12:19, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kingsif: This is a standard format for a list article. We just have to check that there's a minimum of 1500 characters (or a 5x expansion) in the lead. Yoninah (talk) 12:37, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for explaining. Prose was 5x expanded on 30 October and hook is sourced. Kingsif (talk) 12:41, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]