Talk:Oveco (bishop of Oviedo)

This article was nominated for deletion on 31 July 2009. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

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Page Wikification[edit]

This page appears to be a block format of scattered information. There is no chronological order, nor has there been any major improvements since I put the tag on this page. The idea of a wiki tag is to let users who stumble upon this article that things can be done to correct it. By doing this, you add idea's from everyone not just yourself.keystoneridin! (talk) 20:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read the article? I don't believe you have, because it is strictly chronologically ordered. The information is not scattered, it is found on the pages specified in the source specified, which also deals with it in chronological fashion. It is the sum of what is known, more or less, about Oveco. None of my ideas are present in the article, as that would be original research. I am only presenting the ideas of others. Further, I have included all relevant internal links. Can you name one specific problem? Srnec (talk) 23:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you were to include a table that would direct other users on where to go, this page would be outstanding. I am not familiar with this person, nor do I have any interest. Part of this is because I know little about the information here, and the other is this page does not meet wiki's quality standards. Put a table on it so that people can be directed on certain parts of the page. Somebody might find this entire article useless as it is, however, if it has a table they can be directed to the parts that they want to know.keystoneridin! (talk) 04:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A table of contents? Has been added. Srnec (talk) 04:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see that there is now a table. I have found numerous problems with the writing style of this article. The years that he lived and died are unclear and look like a fraction. I am going to put this article up for deletion under the AFD. I believe this will attract the attention of people to make this article better.keystoneridin! (talk) 04:31, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can I make a suggestion?
Part of the problem might be the uncertainty about the man in the historical record ( it was the Dark Ages, after all} and that has tended to be highlighted here.
Can I suggest:

a) moving the “Senior bishop.." section up into first place
b) splitting it at “The record of Oveco in subsequent years.. (?title "Later years )
c) having the “Earlier episcopate at the bottom

That way what is known about him will have more prominence that what isn’t. Also, Is there a reference for Cosada’s and Risco’s theory? Is the Hispana Sacra source available anywhere? They could go in as references. Swanny18 (talk) 14:49, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried not to introduce any of the arguments underlying the conclusions into the article. What the article says about Oveco is true of Oveco the bishop of Oviedo, it is not possible that it in fact pertains to Oveco of León. Further, the hypothesis that there were two Oveco's is roundly (and I think rightly) dismissed in my source and the error is in fact quite old: Posada and Risco died in 1831 and 1801 respectively. There is no reason to treat their theories on par with those of a modern scholar writing in 1948. Further, I have found no other modern source using the numbering "Oveco I" and "Oveco II", indicating that the distinction is as dead as its theorists. This is why I don't think moving the "Senior bishop" section up and the "Earlier episcopate" section down will help. It just screws up the chronology: the earlier Oveco and the senior Oveco are one and the same and "their" episcopate can be reconstructed in some detail, as my source has done.

I don't think "The record of Oveco in subsequent years" actually represents a good break point, though I am not adverse to splitting that section. I tried, but I couldn't find a good place, the whole of it is united by the "theme" of Oveco's seniority and importance during the reign of Ramiro II. Let me stress again that I have tried to always indicate clearly and explicitly what is fact, what speculation, and what error about Oveco.

Recent versions of the journal Hispania sacra are available free at Dialnet (http://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/revista?tipo_busqueda=CODIGO&clave_revista=649), but older versions (incl. 1948) are not. Its own website (http://hispaniasacra.revistas.csic.es/index.php/hispaniasacra) has recent volumes but nother older than two years. If you care, check back to both sites in the future and perhaps they will have uploaded older content. Older volumes are accessible online through the Periodicals Archive Online (http://pao.chadwyck.com/), but this is not free. Perhaps you or someone you know (on Wiki?) may have institutional access (through a university?). Other than that, who uses hard copies of journals anymore? Srnec (talk) 00:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]