Talk:Pan-Indian film

Addition of content

Add Darbar,Annaathe,Kurup,Dabangg 3 2409:4051:9F:F399:1586:5720:6D83:9855 (talk) 08:34, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

These were not pan India films , Vikram has been a pan India success

Amarrrrty (talk) 09:37, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Useful articles

These two (https://www.sify.com/movies/pan-indian-telugu-movies-land-in-crisis-imagegallery-0-tollywood-vf5e8fgcedije.html and https://www.bollywoodlife.com/photos/before-pooja-hegde-and-rashmika-mandanna-sridevi-kajol-aishwarya-rai-vidya-balan-and-10-more-screen-goddesses-who-were-the-og-pan-india-actresses-view-pics-entertainment-news-1931677/1931766/) seem insightful. Though bollywoodlife is unusable, it points out the hypocrisy in the movement. I hope the content is available elsewhere. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:43, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

What can I do for you sir regarding this? Amarrrrty (talk) 09:38, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Try adding content from Sify. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:24, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Criteria for films considered to be pan-Indian

Since there is a constant back and forth changes in this list, I believe there should be some objective criteria for potential candidates. A couple of conditions were boldly added by an IP in this edit which I broadly agree with. Not every film dubbed (or planned to be dubbed) in various languages can be added in the list as the list would become endless and the overall significance of the entries would go down. Therefore to summarize:

1. The film must have been released
2. Some degree of success or attention on a pan-India level needs to be demonstrated in independent sources

Thanks and regards -- Ab207 (talk) 07:54, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Vijay is a pan indian actor

It is 100% true 1.38.195.69 (talk) 14:15, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. This article is about films, not actors. -- Ab207 (talk) 08:34, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Dubbed films

Films are being dubbed and released in multiple languages since 1960's what is the logic behind pan Indian film asa movement since 2015? If adjusted to inflation rates films previously released to baahubali had equally good box office revenue. The top grossing pan Indian films already have a article. Why do you need special article for this, and according to whom are these major figures ? Fostera12 (talk) 14:51, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Independent sources

We cant rely on independent sources alone, these are subjective and reflects authors perspectives.Fostera12 (talk) 14:59, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Content dispute

Moved from Talk:Ab207

 – Moved content dispute to article talk page. Ab207 (talk) 14:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello Ab207, can you review the content added by the user Fostera12 on the article Pan-Indian film. Most of the content he added is not related to the article, although they are reliable. I have already replied to them on my talk page. His edits are completely chaning the perception of the article....Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 14:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Jayanthkumar123 Tell me what exactly is your perception, so that we can discuss and come to consensus.Fostera12 (talk) 14:16, 26 July 2022 (UTC). Hi Ab207, please intervene, and suggest the other editor to update the info which he/she disagrees. He is involved in disruptive editing. Fostera12 (talk) 14:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

The pan-indian film was originally started with the Telugu cinema, but the editor completely removed it. They have added the non-major figures and yet to be released films in the list. Also, according to the sources added My Dear Kuttichathan was released only in Tamil, Malayalam and Hindi. It's wide success is not mentioned. The other films that are added in the background section might be sucessful at the box-office but how are they related to the article. I HAVE NOWHERE MENTIONED THE IMPORTANCE OF A PARTICLUAR PERSON OR LANGUAGE as said by Fostera12 as a reason in one of their revisions. The entire paragraph (as edited by Fostera12) on the top is not similar to the previous one. "According to The Times of India, the first pan-Indian film from Kannada cinema is Dr. Rajkumar-starrer Mahishasura Mardini released in 1959.[5] It was dubbed and released in seven other languages. But, no other film was released in more than four languages, since then."----this entire content was removed by them. There is much more to add, but ultimately most of the content is not related. I SOMEHOW AGREE THAT CONTENT RELATED TO DRISHYAM CAN BE ADDED BUT THE SOURCES SHOULD SUPPORT THAT. I might be wrong in few cases, but I am ready to work for better edits. I am thus concluding that I'M NOT BIAS. Further, I am ready to face any kind of consequences including blockage...Thank you......Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 14:32, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Jayanth, an amicable solution can be met. Please do not type in all caps it can be scary. DareshMohan (talk) 19:10, 26 July 2022 (UTC) Ab207 (talk) 14:57, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Pan Indian films

Why are we not including these truly pan Indian films; Roja, Bombay, Pushpaka Vimana, Indian (1996 film), Enthiran, Vishwaroopam, and Dasavathaaram. Can you discuss here with references ? We need to create seperate section in the article for these films.Fostera12 (talk) 05:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, you can add them in background section, that these films are retrospectively identified these films as pan-India if you have reliable sources. Such sources should explicitly use the word 'pan India' to avoid WP:Original research. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:02, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

okay, will check. However, with regards to Major. It is a truly contemporary pan Indian film. It was marketed as a pan Indian film through global media houses like Sony Pictures. Major (film) had very high impact. The cast and crew appeared in all national media channels throught its marketing. Check the articles sources which explicitly mentioned pan India. This bias only i dont like while editing. If you are creating an article, we cannot be subjective.Fostera12 (talk) 10:23, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @Fostera12. If you can find any independent source which analyses how the film is pan Indian, it can be added.

The primary criteria is here independent sources, the makers or any content traced backed to them cannot be used. For eg. If the makers declared that their film is blockbuster, we cannot say 'Oh, they officially declared it as blockbuster, so we should too.' Makers have a vested interest to promote the same, so we use independent sources which tend to be neutral as they have no stake in the film's success/failure. -- Ab207 (talk) 18:51, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

By the way deletion aspect of this article was not fully discussed. The published news paper articles have a number of disagreements on pan indian film criteria.Fostera12 (talk) 11:09, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

Liken this to economic collapse, where the definition is subjective. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:55, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi User:Kailash29792 can u explain this economic collapse and process to re-nominate this article for deletion. On the other hand, I request you to pls properly educate this amateur contributor User:Jayanthkumar123 on wikipedia policies such as disruptive editing, he is not even aware of what it means if messages are typed in caps lock, and he is bluntly reverting other users contributions without tweaking what needs to be changed, I need to improve this article through discussions with Ab207 without User:Jayanthkumar123's annoying edit summaries.Fostera12 (talk) 11:15, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey everyone I have no personal intentions to revert one's edits. You can go through both of our contributions history and verify who is right. Fostera12 have continuously making allegations against me. I am not bluntly reverting other users contributions, there is a reason for everything I do. Even after getting unblocked, his contributions to various articles are disruptive. For example, he has again added the already done discussion, chech here [1]. In the above lines, they have mentioned "By the way deletion aspect of this article was not fully discussed. The published news paper articles have a number of disagreements on pan indian film criteria"...I don't get it...does that mean we should delete this page. There are negatives and positives for everything..try to get that. Donot simply make allegations on other users..please go through my nature of edits..Fostera's nature of contributions made them to be blocked in the past.Thank you.....Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 12:35, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

No allegations, I am asking for discussion, before reverting peoples edits, just check your edit history in pushpaka vimana film it shows your amateurish approach towards contribution to wikipedia. Proper discussion on deletion aspect of Pan Indian film has not happened, you have not even made your views clear. You are not allowing others to make even single spell fix edit. What is your point ? Do you wish to retain this article as it is without updating information, except the list of your personal favourite films. What is so imp about DDLJ dubbed into Telugu I dont understand. Its hilarious. I was blocked because of ur edit warring and bias with one of the admins. Anyways let us assume good faith going forward. The subjective and meaningless term Pan indian film was started off by Indian media channels and papers not Telugu cinema. All films are released with subtitles over OTT this whole pan indian film phenomenon is a hoax with which directors and actors would not want to associate themselves with. There is Indian cinema, there is no such things as Pan Indian. There is hollywood and Chinese cinema there is no such thing as pan hollywood, and pan china. In which language(s) the film was shot matters thats all. If it is popular all over India depends on content, it is anyways covered in the respective film's wikipedia page. There is no point in adding same information again in this article and tagging it pan India. This is sheer non sense.Fostera12 (talk) 13:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I see your point, @Fostera12. I personally created the criticism section for the same reason. But the fact is pan-India, whether real or imagined, exists in media, and is used on a daily basis. So we cannot delete this article, rather develop by covering all major view points.

My only request to you is go slowly. We cannot overhaul the content which has been written over months by multiple editors in a single edit. So any major change without prior consensus is likely to be reverted quickly even it's made in good faith.

Also be specific in what you want, for eg. change X sentence to Y, remove Z sentence because it's unsourced, add W sentence as it is covered by so and so source etc. Hope this helps. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:59, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Ofcourse I agree with you that pan india exists in media, but this statement "Pan-Indian film is a term related to Indian cinema that started off with Telugu cinema" is incorrect and sounds like some gibberrish it is not on par with the standard lead section of a wikipedia article. The lead section need to be re-written, of course it will take time for that. However, pls suggest User:Jayanthkumar123 not to blindly and recklessly revert edits of other users and forcefully retain only his edit in all the articles edited by him. Example of a lead section - "Pan Indian Cinema, or Pan Indian film is a film movement in Indian cinema that originated with Tollywood as a mainstream commercial cinema appealing to audiences across the country with a spread to world markets".

The article name should be changed to Pan Indian cinema from Pan Indian film as it is not a Genre, but a movement. This is how the article needs to developed. We are here to develop encyclopedia, not a text book with primary school standard of english. The section notable films considered to be pan Indian must be avoided altogether, this is article, not a list of filmography, instead such film's specialities must be discussed. Fostera12 (talk) 16:15, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Example, retrospective or early history section before 2015 starting from 1990's with Roja, and the current growth and impact section that led to actual movement since 2015. And Major 2022 film must be included among such films because it is marketed as Pan Indian film. Fostera12 (talk) 16:12, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

I would add these four sections, Background and Early History (example mughal e azam, sholay, pushpak, salaam bombay etc); then Films with National Acclaim with sub section 1990s-2010s, (example roja, bombay, bandit queen, dil se, rangeela, ddlj, satya, lagaan, indian, enthiran etc) then Rise of Pan Indian films with sub section 2015-present. (example baahubali, drishyam, rrr, kgf) with 4-5 lines discussing the speciality of such films. The core of pan indian films is the content which became popular across all states of India.Fostera12 (talk) 16:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Dubbing section must be completely avoided, this article is not about dubbed or bilingual or multilingual films. But while we are discussing that particular film we can mention in which language it was produced and shot, along with other languages dubbed.Fostera12 (talk) 15:46, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Just Copy pasting from sources is not wikipedia, source will mention arbitrary popularity and box office figures so we can't take them as reliable, not all sources are appropriate, we should use that direct source and adapt it to the context of the article.Fostera12 (talk) 16:25, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Dubbing section must be in this article because that played a key role in shaping the success of these films. The term "Pan-Indian film" should be used as it is how most of the sources use it. As said in earlier discussions, every film cannot be a notable pan-indian film although it might get promoted as such. There is a criterion for everything, it should have been released in at least five languages (except for "Baahubali 1" because during its release there is a ban/rules for releasing a film in Kannada dubbed version). There is a difference between pan-indian film and pan-indian reach. Pan-Indian film is a kind of period/phase in Indian cinema, but not a genre or movement. It is nowhere mentioned as a movement. Ab207 need your comments here, as even I myself thought of it as a movement but there is no reliable source saying that. You can add anything including Roja, Bombay, etc. but all the sources must be related to pan-indian film. The sources support their relation to the article. In your previous edits you simply added their box-office performance and reviews, in some cases, they are not at all related to the source you have added. Let me clear this--"I was blocked because of ur edit warring and bias with one of the admins"..as said by you, do not blame me for your fault and no admin is biased here. Also, I have also noticed one thing that, if everything goes smooth according to you then you will say that you need to add that and this, but if somebody saying something which you don't like then you simply say that this article is not at all needed and should be deleted. Comments from DareshMohan, Kailash29792, Deepika o, SP013 and Cyphoidbomb would be helpful.Thank you......Jayanthkumar123 (talk) 17:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

So User talk:Jayanthkumar123, do u agree with these 5 sections; Background and History, Retrospective on films with National popularity, Role of Dubbing, Rise of Pan Indian films (the main section), and Criticism Fostera12 (talk) 10:59, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ab207 pls confirm the following references, so that i can add Major in the list, also pls note im discussing this list with you so that we will be on same page. Next time consider assuming good faith, as it is not possible to discuss all references here every time I make an edit. As you know wikipedia doesn't work like that. Thanks

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/telugu/movies/news/adivi-seshs-pan-india-film-major-all-set-for-nationwide-previews/articleshow/91739162.cms

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/telugu/movies/news/adivi-seshs-first-pan-india-film-major-is-to-release-worldwide-on-june-3rd/articleshow/91117954.cms

https://english.sakshi.com/news/tollywood/adivi-sesh-s-pan-india-film-major-collects-134-crores-gross-worldwide-day-one-156113

https://theprint.in/features/major-a-pan-india-film-because-of-its-emotion-adivi-sesh/949435/

https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/telugu/major-actor-sesh-adivi-on-pan-india-movies-7945709/

Fostera12 (talk) 15:48, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

My concern is lack of independent post-release sources; now-a-days, plenty of films are marketed as pan Indian films and we can find several sources echoing the same. However, adding them dilutes the list to the point that it loses its relevance.

Pushpa's pan Indian impact for example is covered by multiple sources. Note the key word here is impact, whether success or failure, not just a release. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Should localizations of American films not be considered pan-Indian films?

I ask since I recently noticed the commentary I added on the pan-Indian growth of American films in India, most notably all Marvel Cinematic Universe movies starting with Black Widow, as well as Avatar: The Way of Water, had since been removed on the most recent revision of the page. Is it because they're explicitly not of Indian origin? If anything, Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse had the widest release and impact when it comes the pan-Indian phenomenon, given the various languages it got dubbed in in India alone (not just Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, and Kannada in addition to its original English - but also Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali, and Marathi!).

Am I not mistaken? Don't Marvel and Avatar enjoy huge success in India? Or are Indians' views on Hollywood movies the same as Americans' views on anime? 142.188.127.34 (talk) 22:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

"Pan-India" is a very vague and confusing buzzword which will eventually phase out. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:32, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and it looks like it's not even an industry-wide practice. For example, despite all the localization options offered for Across the Spider-Verse, its two most direct box office competitors, Transformers: Rise of the Beasts and The Flash, did not receive such. In fact, Disney themselves seems to have abandoned it, as The Marvels will not receive Kannada or Malayalam dubs except for maybe its digital premiere on Disney+ Hotstar. Who knows? Well- made-for-TV dubs are always a thing. As are fan-written subtitles. 142.188.127.34 (talk) 01:51, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Should its effect on television be considered?

Granted, as Kailash29792 pointed out, "pan-India" is essentially a localization business model, not much different from "EFIGS" (English, French, Italian, German, Spanish) model for video game localization. However, I've noticed various television series have been localized into all five major Indian languages as well, thanks to the efforts of Amazon Prime Video and Cartoon Network's Indian branches.

Prime offers Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Tamil, and Telugu dubs and subtitles for shows they stream like The Boys and Invincible. With CN now having Malayalam and Kannada channels, this also extends to American animated series like the DC Animated Universe, Ben 10 and The Amazing World of Gumball, as well as Japanese anime such as Dragon Ball, and My Hero Academia.

ETV Bal Bharat also does this for Nickelodeon animated series such as SpongeBob SquarePants and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, plus the anime Detective Conan.

Is this a considerable observation? Or should only Indian-made content be considered, like the Marvel and Disney examples I brought up earlier being rejected (which I already pointed out isn't even the case anymore as of The Marvels)? 142.188.127.34 (talk) 16:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Maximalist

Hello, Can someone understand why Maximalist film was added to the See Also section? It was already there in the template Genres, below, anyway. My instinct would be to remove from the See Also section but maybe I missed something. Thanks -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 23:26, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Questions

Is there a cut-off for qualifying as pan-Indian? i.e., is a film released in just Tamil and Hindi considered pan-Indian? It sounds like most pan-Indian films are filmed in one South Indian language and then dubbed into other South Indian languages plus HIndi, is that right? Also, are the songs re-recorded as well? Llajwa (talk) 16:53, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Llajwa: You are exactly right. The film must release in all 6 languages plus songs must be re-recorded. DareshMohan (talk) 19:48, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Along with dubbing and all one should have reliable and reputed sources calling it as Pan-India for different context and there should be notable amount of business done with theatrical run in all that dubbed versions, otherwise we would've been flooded with dozens of movies every year in that list which claims to be Pan India by media. Tousif ❯❯❯ Talk 09:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)