Talk:Percy Bysshe Shelley/Archive 1

Archive 1

Better Image?

There is a much higher resolution image of The Funeral of Shelley at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Louis_Edouard_Fournier_-_The_Funeral_of_Shelley_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg Flizzjkzaop (talk) 12:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Previous Near Drowning

Should his near drowning incident shortly before his death be mentioned somewhere? Source:

http://www.neuroticpoets.com/shelley/ KannD86 (talk) 23:35, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Correction?

Why is it that, in the locked section at the top, Mary Shelley is presented as his OWN wife, Mary Shelley? Isn't his wife appropriative enough (not to mention considering who she is on her own?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.222.223.187 (talk) 04:03, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Does the construction "Mary and Shelly" strike anyone else as weird?

This sentence really amused me: "A few weeks after her body was recovered from the Serpentine River in London's Hyde Park, Shelley and Mary Godwin were married."

With the sentence before it, it makes a little more sense, however sentences are supposed to make complete sense on their own; i.e. not use pronouns referring to nouns not yet referred to in the sentence in question

I question the validity of this.

It's also rather funny.

Did you know that you can edit the article to fix it? Just click on "Edit this page" when you are viewing the article page.—Eloquence 07:30, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

Clarification Needed

In addition to the use of pronouns mentioned in the previous topic, this article features a lot of discussion of Marys, Wollstonecrafts, and Godwins, and it's not always clear who is being referenced. Furthermore, I'd appreciate some comment on Shelley's habit of marrying--is he divorcing first, is he consistently abandoning his previous wife, or is he exercising polygamy in line with his free love values? Will need outside references to clean these up.

Um, he wasn't in the habit of marrying. He only married twice, and that was only because he felt he had to. Why and how and all of that is a really complex issue.

Pisa Landlocked

I deleted Pisa from the drowning segment, as Shelley was not sailing from Pisa, nor could he have done so.

His name

I've always wondered about this. We tend to refer to him by his full name rather than just Percy Shelley. Is this because he always used his full name, or some other reason? JackofOz 09:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

From everything I've ever seen, he signed papers (especially poems) using his full name. I think today some people leave out his middle name because they either don't know how to pronounce it or are too lazy. Many scholars today, however, simply refer to him as Shelley, and Mary Shelley as Mary Shelley or Mary. I've also read that during his own lifetime, people called him by his last name.

In the book Shelley and His World, it says that he was commonly referred to by his middle name rather than Percy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.72.75 (talk) 18:17, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Shelley was referred to by his middle-name when he was a child, but later people would simply refer to him as Shelley. 82.41.41.72 (talk) 13:50, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

His one surviving son was also a Percy Shelley, so my guess is that his contemporaries used his full name to indicate they meant the poet and not the heir to Horsham.

Also I have a query about the pronunciation of Bysshe. I've always heard and read that it was pronounced 'bishi' rather than 'bish'. I think I remember reading this in Richard Holmes's biography. Is this correct? Rimi talk contribs 15:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Death

Added a few sentences about the Julian Rathbone novel which explains Shelley's death as murder by the English government, not sure if it's a valid inclusion or not. what do people think? Also, I understood that Shelley couldn't swim. which obviously didn't help when his boat sunk. This is not mentioned in the article, does anyone know if this is a proven fact??Paul75 20:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

To be completely honest, I think the whole "assassination" part of this biography is bunk and sounds more like a half-hearted conspiracy theory. While I don't suppose we'd be able to ever prove or de-prove he couldn't swim, that's what I've always read.

If you read his poetry, it just doesn't seem that the possibility of a romantic gesture such as suicide is entirely out of the question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.27.38 (talk) 00:57, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

If the novel is significant, it can be mentioned in some sort of section about Shelley's appearance in popular culture. It should not be mentioned as a serious theory on Shelley's death. john k 01:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how "perfect" this is, but I found a collection of poetry by Shelley, and in the introduction about his death, it says one of his friends was watching his approach via telescope, and said friend saw the storm come in and then the boat sink. Either this 'conspiracy theory' envolves the English having a weather machine or it's total cock and bull.No Stahr (talk) 01:18, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Another point brought up - who was Shelley's major influence? We had a discussion in a class at one point about how Shelley could swim very well, and that perhaps his death may have been suicide, in some sort of realization that his greatness could not be attained in comparison to ....... ? Fill in the blank there, I just remember talking about it. Zchris87v 06:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The suggestion that "some" believe his death was a suicide, or an assassination, is pretty ridiculous. Essentially, years ago one scholar (whose name I don't have in front of me) suggested his death was suicide in order to support their reading of "The Triumph of Life" - but this is not believed by a large, large majority of scholars - as in almost all of them (and I would be surprised if one actually existed, I just don't know for a fact none do, so I'll qualify that and just say "most"). There is a much greater percentage of people who believe the moon landing was faked, or that Elvis is still alive. My point is that to include this suggestion in here because some guy who had a class about Shelley vaguely recalls a discussion is a bad idea. Generally, all scholars agree the boat has a defect in the design and sank. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drobbins (talk • contribs) 03:12, 21 November 2008 (UTC) =Sorry but "Generally, all scholars agree the boat has a defect in the design and sank." is not true. Today scholars agree that the boat was sound but that the poor seamanship of Williams and Shelley in a bad storm was the cause of their deaths. Sirswindon (talk) 03:40, 26 March 2011 (UTC) =

new section

have just made a new section for the Rathbone novel, as per suggestion. There are a lot of scattered references to Shelley in popular literature; it would be nice to reference the major ones here. I know Swinburne and Browning referred to him on several occasions. A section on Shelley and the Chartist movement would also be a good idea. Will dig up my ancient abortive Ph.D. notes and construct one. -- Rimi 07:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Although "The Difference Engine" is one of my favorite science fiction novels, I don't know that it is appropriate to mention that an imaginary alternate-universe Shelley appears the book. John Keats. for instance, has an even larger part to play in that novel. But I'm not sure it would be a good thing to mention every fictional appearance by Keats (such as in Thornton Wilder's "The Cabala," in Anthony Burgess' "ABBA ABBA," in Dan Simmons' "Endymion," etc.) in an encyclopedia article about him. It tends to clutter up what should be straight biography. Such details are certainly of interest. But they might be included in a sidebar or in a separate article. George Weinberg-Harter (talk) 20:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Shelley had a rather extensive influence on future poets but only modern takes on his life are mentioned, should there be mention of his influence on say Browning, Yeats, and Hardy to name a few. Also the American poet Elinor Wiley, in her novel The Orphan Angel, imagines Shelley survives his shipwreck and ends up moving to America (see Wiki page on Wiley.) —Anarc27 (talk) 02:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

"Scholarly Magazine" ?

What "scholarly magazine" in Serbia claimed their was enough evidence that Shelley was killed by the British govt? - Anon 6:12PM EST 11/18/2006

Isn't Shelley dead well before Chartism becomes prominent, thus eliminating one reason for his supposed "assassination" by the government.

Expulsion from Oxford

I notice this page makes no notice of his expulsion from Oxford University, as retaliation for a paper he wrote, titled, "The Necessity of Atheism." This seems to be a noteworthy and significant event from his life. Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the talent, I fear, to add it myself. Could somebody do this? - Anon 04:06, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

This information was restored from the 07:59, 1 December 2006 Glen S version. (See comment below.) Bear475 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I will include information about the paper written with Mr. Hogg during his 6 months at Oxford.TeChNiCoLoReDfOx (talk) 15:12, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Peculiar in medias res biography

The "Biography" section begins "In the summer of 1816, Ciera and Mary made a second trip to Switzerland." What? Who the heck is Ciera? Why does the Biography begin when Shelley is twenty-four? I would think a full rewrite is needed. Dybryd 21:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Quite a bit of text was deleted at the beginning of the article (apparently by vandals) after December 1, 2006. I have restored as much as I could. It appears the version of 07:59, 1 December 2006 Glen S is the most complete, but there have been a few valid additions since then. I decided not to just revert back to that version. Bear475 20:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Orientalism

Edward Said mentions Shelley as being an imperialist in his study Orientalism. Should a section be written up on Shelley's possible racism? If no one objects I will add the facts to the article. --Teetotaler

1) Imperialism and racism do not constitute the same thing!

2) Said would say that wouldn't he! This is supposed to be a biography dealing in facts & not opinions!

3) If you were to open a section on "possible racism" here then it's likely a section of a similar nature would have to be opened up on the pages of an awful lot of people i.e. 99.9% of people worldwide born before, say 1950 and a hell of alot of those born since! - Ridiculous!

4) Shelley was known for what at the time would have been described as extreme liberalism. Most of his known views cut against the grain of his own society at the time; He was a socialist in his politics at a time of severe conservatism, he was an atheist at a time of severe theism.

Shelley wasn't necessarily an atheist. He just called for the necessity of atheism as a call to skepticism, to critique, to truth. Shelley--if you want to put some sort of label on him--was wholly anti-religion, for religions' claims to an absolute ideology.-FM (talk) 08:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I take your point! Perhaps then an Anti-theist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.54.188 (talk) 16:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No. I don't have it in front of me right now, but in the "Notes to Queen Mab", he says that he is in no way arguing against the existence of some sort of divine force in the universe, which he thinks is a completely reasonable belief, but doesn't indicate whether he subscribes to it or not. I think Shelley today would have called himself an agnostic. So no he wasn't against the idea of God; he was just against the oppressive nature of religion in the 19th century. Read, say, "Prometheus Unbound". It's all about the problems of ideology. Think of it this way: Shelley had great respect for Jesus as an ethical figure and philosopher. On the other hand he couldn't stand Christianity, which he saw as a perversion of Christ's rather radical ethics and politics. Shelley's first and foremost concern is the individual's autonomy in all matters. Much like Blake, who needless to say, read the Bible literally. -FM (talk) 07:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)-FM

Gay

because of his gay appearance?!?! i think androgynous is a better word to use in this case.IleanaCosanziana 01:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

PS seems to have been responsible for a large amount of pregnancies. Of course we'll never find out for sure because such things were always hushed up in those years. Either way, he probably got a lot more action (with women that is) than any of you.-FM (talk) 08:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

What does this mean?

What exactly does the sentence Fanny Imlay, Mary Godwin's half-sister and a member of Godwin's household, in late autumn mean? I am assuming, since it is about "tragedies marring", something tragic happened, but since I am not familiar with Shelley's life, I have no idea what this means. Vaguely 20:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Found another one: Many believe his death was not accidental. Some say that Shelley was depressed in those days and that he wanted to  ; The suspense is killing me. I assume, again, it means he wanted to die, but verification would be spectacular.Vaguely 20:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Shelly's Cremation

I've read (but can not recall where) that Shelly was burned on the shore not by his wish or his friends, but according to an Italian law: for reasons of health corpses found on the beach were to be burnt.Saxophobia 13:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Introduction

He is famous for much more than just his relationship with Keats and Byron. In fact he hardly had a friendship with Keats at all, though he and Byron were close. Just because they were all comtemporaries doesn't mean they were BFFs. 68.92.9.128 23:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Shelley and Keats were much more than contemporaries; they pursued complementary poetic programs. Shelley actively supported Keats' work, even as Byron attacked it. Ever hear of Shelley's poem Adonaïs? It's an elegy (among a million other things) for Keats.-FM (talk) 07:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

American Revolution

This line really cracked me up: "Percy Shelley's writing significantly influenced the American Revolution." He wasn't born until 1792 - far after the American revolution. Where did the writer get this crap from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.136.195.248 (talk) 16:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of the merits of one's comments, please refrain from brash discourse. It does not take a review of Wikipedia policies to comprehend what is appropriate, and what is simply mean-spirited.

At any rate, Shelley's influence on revolutions in other countries is unquestionable. He has been discussed in numerous publications. While not quite a literary journal, Time Magazine actually does have a well-written account explaining Shelley's significance in multiple revolutions [1]. It may be a typo by the author... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cenci Bell (talk • contribs) 07:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Which revolutions? The ones in the US and France predate him. The Russian Revolution had nothing to do with him. I would like to know what you are thinking of. It says he encouraged revolutions in the Times article but there is little evidence to that, let alone were any major or worked. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

neutrality

It is well known that Shelley was a man of dubious character. The article doesn't reflect that. It doesn't even come close to reflecting it. What shall we do?

I will edit the article the best way I know how, and you tell me what you think. --VKokielov (talk) 12:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Why is it that any discussion of Shelley is as timid and cowardly as he must have been? The tendentiousness of the article is in the way it spreads the arguments of the other side in a way such that no one who reads them believes them. In view of this here is what I think we ought to do: let's take all the damning evidence with citations and separate it from the redeeming evidence. I've removed the pov tag. --VKokielov (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

This is nonsense. Victorian poets and critics and conservative literary figures such as T.S. Eliot had their moment in Shelley studies. Their moment is past. It was not until the 1950s that people began to read Shelley again with an open mind, taking his POETRY and not his PERSONAL life as the measure of his importance as a POET.-FM (talk) 20:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)FM

Shelley's quote

"Concerning God, freewill and destiny: Of all that earth has been or yet may be, all that vain men imagine or believe, or hope can paint or suffering may achieve, we descanted."

Can someone please explain this quote? I could not understand how the term "descanted" applies to this line of thinking. SunnyErn (talk) 18:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)SunnyErn

Mary and the brothels

I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure this is not correct: "He also visited many brothels. It was at such a brothel where he met Godwin's daughter, Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin, later known as Mary Shelley."

Lena Moe (talk) 00:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Hm.. Yeah, it doesn't sound particularly right. According to Mary Shelley's article, she "may have first met [him] in the interval between her two stays in Scotland" but it doesn't say where. TakaraLioness (talk) 10:00, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Move to Percy Shelley

He is better known as Percy Shelley.

The title of Britney Spears is Britney Spears not Britney Jean Spears —Preceding unsigned comment added by YLHG IS BACK AGAIN (talk • contribs) 11:17, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but there are multiple Percy Shelleys. Like, his son, Percy Florence Shelley. There needs to be a distinction. Thank God, however, there are not multiple Britney Spears

(sorry, bad joke, but needed)No Stahr (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I dispute the assertion that he is better known as Percy Shelley. I've hardly ever heard or seen that version. It would be as wrong to move this page to Percy Shelley as it would be to move John Kenneth Galbraith to "John Galbraith". -- JackofOz (talk) 20:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Lead section

This section is now unacceptably long.Syzygos (talk) 01:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Money

Our atheist - if he didn't earn too much, I understand he lived on pocket money from his family all his life? Or were the wives rich? Whose money bought the schooner?--Revery (talk) 13:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Williams and Shelley split the cost for the "Don Juan". [User:Sirswindon|Sirswindon]] (talk) 03:45, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Shelley was the heir to a prosperous landed estate and a baronetcy. He was sought after by girls and their families as a marriage prospect for his wealth. Yes, he did live on an allowance and on post obit bonds (raised to be paid on the death of his father Timothy and his grandfather, the Baronet Bysshe Shelley) but so did all other wealthy aristocrats. He accused Harriet of marrying him for his money, and it did seem that her family, who were innkeepers, actively encouraged the romance. It was a great disappointment to Harriet that Shelley's father disapproved of the match and she was never invited to the manor house. One of Shelley's causes was the perennially bankrupt William Godwin, later his father-in-law, who ran a publishing house of childrens' books. Godwin saw the 19-year-old Shelley as his financial salvation. Shelley also raised money and also gave large amounts of his own money to other charitable causes, such as Catholic emancipation in Ireland. Harriet was pregnant with another man's child when she drowned. The article needs to make some of these things more clear.Mballen (talk) 17:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

"Harriet was pregnant with another man's child when she drowned." I keep reading this, but can never pin down a source. Is there reliable testimony for it? Please note that "reliable" excludes Mary Shelley or her close relatives. Thucydidian (talk) 19:47, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Here you go: http://knarf.english.upenn.edu/People/hshelley.html:

By July, when Shelley and Mary eloped, Harriet's unhappy, though not impossible, situation seemed clear. With her marriage her father had settled £200 a year on her; Shelley gave her a further £100, which was doubled the next January, after the death of his grandfather. So she was comfortably situated as far as her financial situation was concerned. Yet she was clearly unhappy. For a time she returned to her father's house, but found it overly constraining. At some point she took a lover: anecdote has it that he was an office connected with the military establishment in Chelsea. Sometime in the late summer of 1816 Harriet took lodgings nearby, in Hans Place, Knightsbridge, clearly to shield her family from a pregnancy out of wedlock. In late November or early December, having written a despondent farewell addressed to her father, her sister, and her husband, she walked the short distance from her lodgings to Hyde Park and drowned herself in the Serpentine River. At the time of her death she was just twenty-one years oldMballen (talk) 02:00, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

-- ---

Shelley's portrait?

http://blogs.libraries.claremont.edu/sc/ scroll to Shelley--82.160.33.126 (talk) 14:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Various changes

I am performing the following changes:

1. Moving sections "in music" and "in fiction" under the legacy section.
2. Adding new headline for nonviolence
3. Adding new headline for idealism, and moving nonviolence and vegetarianism there
4. merging list of admirers into the one in the legacy section
5. Cutting description of Masque of Anarchy. We already have an article about this poem, and there is no need to paraphrase something an interested reader can easily look up. I will instead add an additional link to that poem.
6. Removing Category:18th-century English people. Shelley was not notable in the 18th century.
7. Removing Category:Scholars and leaders of nonviolence, or nonviolent resistance. Shelley was neither a scholar nor a leader. He did not lead or risk his life in the Peterloo massacre], he only wrote an excellent poem about it.
8. some minor changes. — Sebastian 10:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The Wandering Jew

The Wandering Jew, A Poem in 4 Cantos by Percy Bysshe Shelley. Published for the Shelley Society by Reeves and Turner, London 1877.

This was Shelley's first long poem. He finished it in 1810, but was unable to get it published. It was finally published in 1877. I'm hoping someone can add this to the article.-- I Never Cry 01:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I added this today.-- I NEVER CRY 01:09, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Assessment

I agree with the assessment that the wikipedia page on Mary Shelley is exemplary and that the Shelley page, in contrast, leaves much to be desired.Mballen (talk) 03:46, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Nantgwyllt House

He inherited quite of bit land in Wales which is now under the Elan Valley. Apparently he made the effort to stay there for just six weeks in his entire life in 1812!

Ironic

Warning Wikipedia readers of Paul Johnson's "conservative and religious agenda" in Intellectuals is inappropriate in an NPOV article, and is hilarious in one about Shelley.

Remove uncited entries 'in popular culture'?

Is there any reason not to remove the uncited entries from the 'in popular culture' section? It seems to be a 'cruft magnet'... I removed one redlinked item which was probably an attempt at advertising already. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. And why on earth is each listed item preceded by a bolded year? Anything that has low relevance to the subject (eg, fictitious American secret societies, vampires, etc) should be cut out first. The same syndrome applies to the "Idealism" section: He became an idol of the next two or three or even four generations of poets, including the important Victorian and Pre-Raphaelite poets Robert Browning, Alfred, Lord Tennyson, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, Algernon Charles Swinburne, as well as Lord Byron, Henry David Thoreau, W. B. Yeats, and Edna St. Vincent Millay, and poets in other languages such as Jan Kasprowicz, Rabindranath Tagore, Jibanananda Das and Subramanya Bharathy. I will respectfully try to find verification for all these—any failing need to be deleted per our rules. Bjenks (talk) 03:13, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. Anna (talk) 23:05, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Sensing there's firm enough consensus to clean up the section, I've spent a few hours trying to place it into a cooler perspective. Bjenks (talk) 15:49, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Musical settings of poems

Am wondering that there is no reference to Charles Ives's setting of "Rough Wind" ["A Dirge"] in the "114 Songs". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vieuxdelamontagne (talk • contribs) 16:36, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

why is one of the titles of the sections two suicides and a wedding

that sounds like a very bad movie title like 4 weddings and a funeral Superkid761 (talk) 09:33, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

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Shelley manor

The article says:

"Shelley's widow Mary bought a cliff-top home at Boscombe, Bournemouth in 1851. She intended to live there with her son, Percy, and his wife Jane, and had her own parents moved from their London burial place at St Pancras Old Church to an underground mausoleum in the town. The property is now known as Shelley Manor."

But St Peter's Church, Bournemouth says this:

"Mary Shelley's son, Sir Percy Florence Shelley bought land in Boscombe to build a house, believing that the balmy climate would help his sick wife and his mother. However, Mary Shelley never lived in Boscombe Manor."

Which is correct? Perhaps both? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:55, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, they're both right I think. Consulting the local rag:

In 1849, Shelley's son, Percy Florence, was told Bournemouth was the place to build a house [because of its 'warmer climate'], which he believed would help the health of his wife and of his ailing mother, Mary. He bought some land in Boscombe, which would become Boscombe Manor, but it wasn't ready for occupation until March 1851 [after Mary's death]. We know from records and letters that Mary visited Bournemouth at least once - probably to watch the house being built - but she never lived there. The interesting thing was, when she was near to death, she said she'd like to be buried in Bournemouth with her parents - but they were already buried at St Pancras in London.

...the remains of the heart were kept in Boscombe Manor for many years. Then when Mary's son Percy Florence Shelley died and was buried in the family plot, the heart was slipped into the tomb. "It's said that the famous romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley never knew Bournemouth but he has his heart in the town." [2]

As it happens, I paid my first visit to the Shelley theatre a couple of nights back: got free tickets to watch Mark Kermode's skiffle stuff. A lovely little venue and a pleasant evening -- his music's far more enjoyable than his filum reviews. It used to be an art college and after that was closed down (about 1997 I think) it was abandoned for a decade or so. I broke in once with a view to squatting it but tripped an alarm and got confronted by several angry cops. Fortunately, I'd already opened some windows and fire-exits, otherwise I would've been arrested for breaking-and-entering. --Hillbillyholiday ^talk 15:20, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Blimey... it's getting to sound like a litany of your past life around here. But looks likes a possible new article there? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

An article for Shelley Manor? Maybe. Let's see what Pevsner has to say about it.. "very much altered and of no real interest" ..Oh well, perhaps not. --Hillbillyholiday ^talk 16:02, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Sometimes an architecturally dull residence can be notable for its interesting occupants? Or maybe we're just plumbing the depths here. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

It seems it is now a medical centre. But the website claims "Shelley Manor was built at the start of the nineteenth century and is the oldest documented building in Bournemouth." I'm sure there's enough for an article here. In fact, there's a whole book! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it's my doctor's surgery! They did a fairly tasteful job on the restoration, too. I would agree the Manor is notable enough for an article; unfortunately, my interet's getting cut off tonight, so I can't get too involved in creating an article. But thanks for the link to the book, I'll order that from the library. --Hillbillyholiday ^talk 18:15, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Wow, added sleb status. I'd have thought an investment of £2.40 might be cheaper that all those library fines you are bound to incur! See you in 12 months again then.... Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Percy Bysshe Shelley/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

Press [show] to view →

Sorry to "dis" the author, who I believe in the discussion page does say his article has been vandalized and much deleted. If it started out to contain what it should have, and has been wiped, then I apologize for my very poor review of the article. It is very strange to read so much about Shelley's genealogy and so little about his poetry, its criticism, and the developing view of his poetry over time, let alone no really major account of his life! This article should be compared with the truly excellent and extensive article on his wife, Mary Shelley, to contrast the quality of the articles. Even the articles on some of the remote players in Shelley's life are of more informative quality. No one cares very much about a major search of his distant ancestors, but people care VERY much about his life and works and his position in the canon of English poets! A great deal of biographical information and literary criticism is availble on Shelley. This article doesn't make use of even the better accounts from the vast source material out there. The movie stuff is sort of interesting, but of extremely minor import. I would rate this article as much less than "B" rating, in spite of its length. It does not appear that the author really knows or has researched Shelley, but apparently the author watches a lot of movies. Petroniares (talk) 14:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 14:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 02:38, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Siblings?

In the "Early life and education" section, Shelley is described as "the oldest legitimate son of Sir Timothy Shelley" (my emphasis). Is this intended to imply that Sir Tim fathered one or more children prior to Percy? There's no suggestion of this on Tim's WP page, and I'm minded to remove the word "legitimate" as redundant. ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 19:29, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

No objections, so I've Been Bold. ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 19:02, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shelley (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Single Lecture

I propose that we delete "widely believed to have only attended a single lecture". https://archive.org/details/shelley0001whit/page/86/mode/2up ("Shelley", biography by Newman Ivey White) states "At the very outset of his career he broke off an absorbing conversation with Hogg to attend a university lecture that students were not required to attend... if he attended no more he had a better record than most undergraduates and some dons". This somewhat implies with increasing levels of credibility:

• that there might have been this belief, and that the biographer White wishes to discredit it without raising it deliberately
• that volunteering to go to a lecture is not the behaviour of someone who shirked lectures to an extensive degree
• that not attending lectures was entirely normal at the time and is thus non-notable

I can find no authoritative text suggesting such a belief to be widespread, other than webpages which may simply derive their information from Wikipedia, but my search is not exhaustive.

I will make the edit shortly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.247.181 (talk) 22:29, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:31, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Early life and education

Hello all

I have made a number of additions to this section and have corrected some errors. I have also added citations where needed and have made some edits for length. Happy to discuss. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Second marriage

Hello all

I have added information to this section with citations and have made some edits for length. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:02, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

I have renamed this section "Marriage to Mary Godwin" for clarity. In fact Shelley had three marriages: First to Harriet Westbrook in Scotland, which might or might not have been legal under Scottish law. Second to Harriet in England which was certainly legal. Third to Mary in England, which was legal. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:25, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Italy

Hello all

I have replaced some unsourced or inadequately sourced information with more reliable information and have added additional information with citations. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Death and Shelley's heart

Hello all

I have edited these sections for length and balance and have provided citations where needed. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:02, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Marriage

Hello all

I have expanded this section considerably and have added citations where necessary. Happy to discuss. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I have renamed this section "Marriage to Harriet Westbrook" for clarity. In fact Shelley had three marriages: First to Harriet Westbrook in Scotland, which might or might not have been legal under Scottish law. Second to Harriet in England which was certainly legal. Third to Mary in England, which was legal. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Selected works

Hello all

I have rationalised the lists of selected works. The previous lists often included the same works several times. The lists still need to be culled because they include very minor works and fragments, but exclude a number of important works. I suggest we consider starting a new wiki article on a more complete bibliography of Shelley's work. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Political, religious and ethical views

Hello all

I have replaced the major heading Idealism, with the above heading which better encapsulates the range of Shelley's thought. I have added new information with citations and have also replaced some inadequately sourced material. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 02:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Family history

Hello all

I have made this a subsection of Shelley's life. I have removed material that was original research and unsourced and replaced it with more relevant information with reliable sources. I also moved some material to the article on Sir Bysshe Shelley where it is more relevant. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:27, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Reception and influence

Hello all

I have added tis section on the critical, public and literary reception of Shelley's work and its influence on other literary figures. I have movs some of the material in the Legact section to this section. I have also removed material which as unsourced, had unreliable sources or otherwise did not meet wiki policy. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 03:46, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Introduction

Hello all

I have added some information to the lead-in section to better reflect the contents of the article. I have also removed some unsourced material. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:22, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I have removed some unsourced material which purported to establish that Shelley was a liberal. The consensus of modern biographers and literary critics is that Shelley was a political radical in a British tradition of the early 19th century. Although, his political views were idiosyncratic and not easily classifiable, he was not a liberal in either the usual British or American sense. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:55, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Heart

Re: this edit, what happened (if anything) to Shelley's heart? Here is a link to Hermione Lee (2005) at GoogleBooks: [3] but not all of the relevant chapter is viewable. Lee says "possibly liver" not "probably"? And James Bieri (2005) does not mention the liver. The edit summary says: "deleted myths about Shelley's heart which were debunked in Bieri's definitive biography. Burial place of heart (which was probably his liver) has never been proved. Added source about myth." But what was the source of the myth? I also think the links to St Peter's Church, Bournemouth and Christchurch Priory are useful. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I should have said "possibly" the liver. Some said the presumed heart was unusually small, others that it was unusually large. It's difficult to separate the facts about the heart from later romantic myths which is why I think we should keep the account brief. The fate of Shelley's heart/liver isn't important to his life and work anyway. I removed the links to St Peter's Church and Christchurch Priory in error. Thanks for reinstating them. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Fair comment. Thanks for explaining. I'd say his heart was pretty fundamental to his life! But yes, I know what you mean. Did Mary really keep it wrapped in a page from Adonais for nearly thirty years!? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Note, the Christchurch Priory article describes the monument to Shelley, but says nothing about his heart. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:06, 27 April 2021 (UTC)