Talk:Siberia/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Definition of Siberia

Do Koryaks live in Siberia? I think not, if the map in the article is correct. There is a lot of confusion between Siberia and Far East around Wikipedia and it should be rectified somehow.  Grue  19:04, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Defining the extent and limits of an exotic region

Hm.. the more I click my way around on these pages, the more I come to realize that perspectives and understandnings on all these exotic regions and continents vary and are highly subjective and even biased. Perhaps the English usage is much more inconsistent, unprecise and overlapping than the native-speakers' usage. If so, this is similar to other vaguely-defined regions that are found in the minds of distant groups of people and mean different things to them. See also Talk:Scandinavia, Talk:Latin America, Talk:Middle East and Talk:Balkans, and also exonym versus autonym for similar discussions of namings and meanings. //Big Adamsky 18:04, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

"Imperial" army

"First groups of traders and Cossacks began to enter the area, and then the imperial army began to set up forts further and further east". Russia became an empire only in the 18th century. I've changed 'imperial' to 'Russian'. Shakura 19:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Extended the History of Siberia section

That what was written there in the XX century history, was buncha commonplaces. Ъыь 15:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

I just had to fix a bit of vandalism. Nothing major but odd. Someone please double check the article and make sure I got everything back correctly. Thanksrhmoore 19:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Gulag and horror fiction

I've removed much of the paragraph on Gulag, because it's exaggerated, and repeats the same things from History of Siberia and Gulag articles. For example, some contributors like to emphasize on fact that the conditions give no chance to survive. I'd like to see the _original sourse_ evidence. Even in the camps of polar region people lived without fighting for survival. Then, about the south-siberia katorga and camps read the memories of those who passed through Imperial and Soviet camps: for example, those of the Decembrists.

The article is almost empty, scarse climate and nature description, and instead you add this horror semi-fiction. Somebody has done the same before me, but it was reverted as vandalism. I've repeated this and insist that it's right. --Ъыь (mailbox) 10:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Population estimate needed

The Demographics section is screaming for a good population estimate. You can get a ballpark one via Wikipedia (10 million km2, 3 people per km2, for 30 million people), but a real figure would be beneficial. Anybody? Bueller? --Thatnewguy 16:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Growing season

I'm skeptical about a growing season (I assume a frost-free season) of 150-180 days. If it is 180 days anywhere in Siberia, it's not represent of Siberia as a whole or even southern Siberia. For comparison, Topeka, Kansas only has a frost-free season of 175 days,[1] and it is a much more hospitable climate for agriculture than Siberia. Bismarck, North Dakota has a frost-free season of only 129 days, but is still much, much warmer than many southern Siberian towns.[2] Compared to Novosibirsk[3], for instance, Bismarck has slightly warmer winters (21 F (-6.1 C) high in January/-1 F (-18.3) low vs. 9 F (-12.8 C)/-2 F (-18.9 C)) and warmer summers (85 F (29.4 C) high in July/56 F (13.3) low vs. 75 F (23 C)/58 F (14 C)). If Bismarck were compared to Irkutsk[4], there would be an even larger difference. Are there any sources available, or was "150-180" a guess? Or was it referring to a very small, non-respresentative area of Siberia? Ufwuct 23:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Another comparison: Ulaanbaatar apparently only has about 60 frost-free days (see Geography_of_Mongolia#Climate), although this is unsourced too. While this Mongolian city is slightly higher in elevation, it is also further south.

Conflicting Statistics

"All but the extreme south-western area of Siberia lies in Russia, and it makes up about 56% of that country's territory." (Beginning of Article)

"With an area of 10,007,400 km², Siberia makes up roughly 58% of the total area of Russia." (Later in Article)

Even though these are estimates, how can both be true in the same article at the same time? This needs to be corrected. Count de Chagny 02:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Eastern Siberia

Merge from Western Siberia

  • Merge — Jack · talk · 01:14, Monday, 16 April 2007
  • Merge.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge--Son of thunder 04:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Superzohar Talk 13:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge - Blueorpheus 04:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge - VashiDonsk 23:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Don't Merge These were separate districts with separate governors, as far as I can make out, and should have distinct pages for historical reasonsHarrypotter 18:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment. The articles on historical territories should be named East Siberian Governorate General and West Siberian Governorate General (in addition to Siberian Governorate, which pre-dated them), not just "Eastern/Western Siberia". As they currently stand, the stubs are about geographical areas only, and should indeed be merged into "Siberia" as they contain very little new information.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Reply to comment Sounds good to me! Or should we use the term Siberian Guberniya as per Guberniya?Harrypotter 21:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
        • I think this had been raised somewhere before, but in general all articles about guberniyas are titled "XXX Governorate", not "XXX Guberniya". See history of the administrative division of Russia (and lists it links to) for current usage. From what I've seen, people seem to prefer "governorates" over "guberniyas" (as the latter is an obscure term for most Anglophones). Anyway, my point is that you might want to ask around if you intend to change the naming scheme. There are quite a few articles called "XXX Governorate" already. Best,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 22:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Yes I ahve checked that (and there seem to also be some redundant pages on this topic. What I draw from this is that we should go for East Siberian Governorate and West Siberian Governorate, leaving of the General at the end. Then things would be consistentHarrypotter 12:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Actually, a "governorate" (губерния) and "governorate general" (генерал-губернаторство) refer to different concepts. A Governorate General would normally be comprised of several Governorates. If you aim for consistency, you should take that into account when titling articles. In 1822, for example, West Siberian Governorate General included Tobolsk Governorate, Tomsk Governorate, and Omsk Oblast. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Geography of Siberia

Somebody should write an article on this fascinating subject.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:40, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Location

what is the darker red on the map? I came here to see where is siberia, but could not tell for sure...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.181.176.189 (talk • contribs).

Was the caption not helpful? Darker red is Siberian Federal District, while the lighter read is Siberia's broadest definition.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
The map is completely worthless for someone trying to understand where siberia is in relation to the rest of russia/the world. An overview map, like the one for central asia (see: Central Asia) would be nice.
sorry i dont the proper way to format my comments...i'm learning.
-zack 25 Jan. 2007.
Umm, the map shows whole Russia and highlights Siberia within Russia, so to say that it doesn't show Siberia in relation to the rest of Russia is simply untrue. A map of the word with Siberia highlighted, on the other hand, could be beneficial. Let's hope someone will make a map like that one day.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 13:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
One thing I noticed is that the map seems to indicate that Siberia is the intersection between Asia and Russia. Yet that definition is not given. Wouldn't it be useful to say in the introduction, "Geographically, it is the Asian portion of Russia, including a large part of ..."? Calbaer (talk) 01:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Definition

I don't know the exact source of the previous definition that used the Pacific coast, not the drainage divide between Arctic and Pacific as the eastern boundary of Siberia. However, Great Soviet Encyclopedia (and many other sources) uses the latter, and the former contradicts at least the Administrative Divisions section.

By the way, is Vladivostok a Siberian city?

S.B. Odin (talk) 17:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The borders of Siberia are not all that well-defined. Depending on context, the definition of "Siberia" can include only the Siberian Federal District, the Siberian Federal District and the Far Eastern Federal District, those without the Altai region, or even the whole Asian territory of Russia.
As for Vladivostok, I don't have a source to quote, but as a person who lived there for quite a while I can assure you that the inhabitants of the city do not consider themselves living in "Siberia", but in the "Russian Far East". It is one of the points of local pride, actually. Hope this helps.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, even the northern border of Siberia is not definite (some people can say that Russian Far North to the east of Urals is not "Siberia"). I didn't like the non-sourced definition (and the idea that Vladivostok is a Siberian city) and tried to find the definition that is most often used in modern (mostly soviet-era) literature. Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do. The other possibility is to remove any definitions more precise than "the part of Russia to the east of Ural mountains" from the beginning of the article and explain all the possible meanings of this term in Geography section. Or even "the part of Asia", not "the part of Russia" — what about the northernmost areas of Kazakhstan? — S.B. Odin (talk) 22:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
If you are willing to do it, go right ahead. Having sources, any sources, is better than having no sources any day. Considering the vagueness of existing definitions and how they contradict one another, having a separate section dedicated to this issue is certainly a good constructive idea.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 01:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
The source of the previous definition looks like Britannica.—S.B. Odin (talk) 08:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Image overload: too many images obscures text

I'm working on changing some image alignment so that no images obscure article text. However, it may be necessary to delete some of the pictures. I didn't want to do so without getting at least a consensus from everybody else, though. --Thephotoman (talk) 06:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It looks like those images have no copyright information, and as such aren't long for the page anyway. I've commented them out for the time being. If User:Lexio can come up with that information, I'll be happy to assist him/her in putting those images into a gallery. --Thephotoman (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Danger

I have read in many a travel guide that this section of the country is very dangerous and un-cautious travelers are sometimes killed. I have also read that there is conflict in the region, of what kind, armed or no I cannot remember. Shouldn't the danger be mentioned in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.82.102 (talk) 07:29, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, there is no conflict there - I can’t imagine, Where did you get this info from ? Hellinalj (talk) 21:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Siberia

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Siberia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "cia":

  • From Earth: Staff (2008-07-24). "World". The World Factbook. Central Intelligence Agency. Retrieved 2008-08-05.
  • From Russia: The World Factbook. "Russia". Central Intelligence Agency. CIA. Retrieved 2007-12-26.
  • From History of Russia: CIA World Fact Book - Russia
  • From Antarctica: "Antarctica - The World Factbook". United States Central Intelligence Agency. 2007-03-08. Retrieved 2007-03-14.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 18:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

Some idiot made the article FUBAR.

Somebody fix it? It's been like this for over a day. 208.68.255.96 05:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. 208.68.255.49 04:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

More vandalism, plus some of the images are broken. Can someone please fix this? ~3ni9m4tic, 2-10-09. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.135.28.129 (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

ethymology

Hi, is anyone willing to look through the etymology section again? In my opinion it seems quite obvious that the name is from the Sibir Khanate, but I have little insight into those other proposed etymologies, except that none of them look very well-sourced (that is, a source for the existence of that Sabir POV can be found here). Regards, Yaan (talk) 15:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Similar to Canada

Curious that Siberia has a population, geography and size similar to Canada´s...--81.32.121.33 (talk) 07:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


Shaman Akkanat and etymology of Siberia

The following sentence has been unsourced for some time despite the citation needed tag: Shaman Akkanat, one of the last shamans in western Siberia and a leading figure in the indigenous society of the region, claims that Siberia got its name from his nation, the Sibirga people. I propose swift deletion unless a credible source can be provided. --Sungmanitu (talk) 19:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC) I have deleted it. --Sungmanitu (talk) 16:03, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Climate of southern Siberia

The article states that the climate of southern Siberia is subarctic (Koppen: Dfc, Dfd- extremely cold winter, Dwc-dry winter), but this is not correct for Novosibirsk, see climate table in article. If more than 3 months of the year has summer temperatures (monthly 24-hr average at least 10 C), then it is not subarctic, but Humid continental climate Dfb. The climate of Novosibirsk is thus humid continental Dfb according to climate table. This is not surprising, as southernmost Siberia is not high latitude. The vegetation, becoming temperate in the southernmost part, is consistent with a transition to a humid continental climate. Thus, article must be changed. It is inconsistent.Orcaborealis (talk) 16:27, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record: I have made changes to this section in article in accordance with the above. It is now consistent wrt climate, vegetation and agriculture (I have not looked into the claim about soil). Orcaborealis (talk) 13:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

East and West Siberias

Should articles on the former Imperial Russian regions of East Siberia (Irkutsk) and West Siberia (Omsk) be created? 70.24.244.248 (talk) 12:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

State Corporation of Siberia

According to russian business-oriented newspaper Kommersant posted 20th April 2012 an article about new russian government bill project of state-owned "Siberian corporation". Scandalous situation is in terms of operation of this new corporation. By the project this corporation will take under it's sole control 60% of all eastern russian territories (including region of Lake Baikal), will be above all international agreements and above domestic law jurisdiction, receive exclusive rights to acquire (public servitude) any public or private land for mining fossils, with direct rule of Russia President Vladimir Putin. Do we need to refer it? Article [use translator]: http://kommersant.ru/doc/1919404 Westsomething (talk) 14:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

I guess we shoulld wait until more definite confirmation of this idea actually going to be implemented. Not to mention, that very little of what you wrote above is actually written in the article. Hellerick (talk) 03:43, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
You've used a very bad translator and REALLY need to check the East India Company for your personal education. This is the real bill from Ministry and there's already a first confirmations from officials of Russian Parliament (Duma) that the idea of this bill was made last year (http://echo.msk.ru/programs/razvorot-morning/880512-echo/). My words are direct excerpts from article only besides international - which is is just obvious thing because position above domestic jurisdiction (which is posted by newspaper) automatically makes this corporation above all international treaties which signed by Russia (about preserving nature, wildlife for example and etc.). Westsomething (talk) 21:40, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Interview to business newspaper Kommersant at 23rd April 2012 of Moscow region governon Sergey Shoygu with confirmation and additional details of Siberian corporation including finance numbers [use translator]: http://kommersant.ru/doc/1921952. Westsomething (talk) 23:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Colonization of Siberia

"A milestone in the history of the region was the arrival of the Russians in the 16th and 17th centuries, contemporaneous and in many regards analogous to the European colonization of the Americas."

This sentence has been removed multiple times. I'm reverting back to original sentence. It seems that lots of people are not comfortable with the fact of comparison between Siberia colonization by Russia and America colonization by Europe.
References

-James Forsyth, 1994, A History of the Peoples of Siberia: Russia's North Asian Colony 1581-1990
-Steven Sabol, The Western Historical Quarterly, Vol. 43, No. 1 (SPRING 2012), pp. 29-51, Comparing American and Russian Internal Colonization: The “Touch of Civilisation” on the Sioux and Kazakhs Durianlover1 (talk) 19:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Siberian Nationalism

I came across a wikipedia article about Siberian nationalism, and I wonder if Siberian nationalism should be linked or referenced on Siberia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erinius (talk • contribs) 23:24, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject China?

Why is this page tagged as part of WP:China? Reading the article I can find next to no information related to China in it. Have people confused Siberia with parts of the Russian Far East which were ceded to Russia in the Treaty of Aigun. Rincewind42 (talk) 06:57, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

You should probably ask this at that WikiProject's talk page. WikiProject tagging is done by project members to include articles into their workflows; it can be done for a variety of reasons, sometimes not entirely obvious. Tagging is a maintenance tool, not a guidance for readers or a statement of ownership. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 13, 2013; 13:12 (UTC)
Digging in the history tagging was not done by a WP:China member. It was by IP 75.119.243.174 who also tagged a couple of other Siberia pages similarly and made some edits that were almost all later removed. Since I am a member of WP:China I am going to revert 75.119.243.174's edits and remove the China and Mongolia tags from this page. Rincewind42 (talk) 16:10, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Khan of Sibir before the Khanate of Sibir?

Article currently says that "The Khan of Sibir in the vicinity of modern Tobolsk was known as a prominent figure who endorsed Kubrat as Khagan in Avaria in 630". But the Khanate of Sibir as apparently only founded in the 15th century. Something isn't right here - was there an earlier Sibir Khanate before it was (re)established in the 15th Century, or is the title anachronistic? Iapetus (talk) 17:09, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

The use of the title "Khan of Sibir" for Kubrat seems very dubious. I left a note about a citation needed, but most likely it will have to be removed. Hellerick (talk) 05:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

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Etymology

An etymology of Siberia was proposed at Talk:Xibe but sounds absurd to me. How do you folks see it? --Nanshu 03:57, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I had read, perhaps in the book "Nicholas and Alexandra" (Robert K. Massie), that was named after a Cossack chief named Sibir, who started the Russian domination over Siberia in the 17th century.--Manfariel (talk) 16:01, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Sport

Why aren't the KHL teams in Siberia mentioned? There's even a photo of two of them playing. Yellowjournalism (talk) 21:17, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Geography Discussion

This discussion was moved from User talk:Maximaximax and User talk:Ezhiki

I do not know much about siberia, and none of the graphics on this page help me know where exactly/approximately siberia located on the map, in relation to Russia and the world. Could someone help? 128.146.160.247 14:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


The correct (geographical) definition of Siberia is "a territory in between Urals mountains and the mountain ridges of the Pacific watershed". While this includes the Sakha Republic (and yes — it was my mistake not to include it when making the original edit of the article), it does not include the rest of the RFE (you sure would not want to be caught saying that Primorsky Krai is a part of Siberia, would you?).

Now, from the historic point of view RFE is considered to be a part of Siberia. This fact is well worth mentioning in the article to avoid confusion in the future. This also seems to be the point of view adopted by most of the western encyclopedias (Webster, for one). Still, using a historic definition instead of a proper geographical definition is not right in an article where Siberia is discussed primarily as a geographic object.

I hope this addresses your concerns. I am going to re-edit the article later today — feel free to review and please let me know if you disagree with any points outlined above.--Ëzhiki 13:54, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad to have such a comprehensive explanation from you, but, unfortunately I sill cannot agree.
RFE is only one of the part of Siberia like Zabaikalie or Yakutia, etc.
See for example: http://encycl.yandex.ru/cgi-bin/art.pl?art=brokminor/36/36372.html&encpage=brokminor
I live most of the time in Siberia and nobody before you told me something like that Siberia does not include Far East. It looks similar to the sentance that Russia is only up to Ural mountains, and Siberia is totally another region :) With best wishes Maximaximax 14:57, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You may also want to check a BSE article on Siberia (also available through Yandex). It is a bit more current than B&E's version. That article specifically lists what is included into Siberia and what's not.
I don't know if you were maybe tought a different version of Russian geography in school (Siberian conspiracy of world domination, maybe? :)), but as a person who lived in RFE for most of my life I can tell you that we were always tought that Siberia and RFE are separate regions (with the obvious exception of Sakha-Yakutia, which is a part of RFE but also is considered to be in Siberia). After all, Siberia is divided into West and East Siberia for a reason, and East Siberia certainly does not include RFE. If it did, the region would be called Far East Siberia, not Far East :)
Please let me know if you are still not convinced (and, if so, why). Thanks.--Ëzhiki 15:41, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)
Siberian Conspiracy theory? :)) Rather new invention, you need to write a special article about it :)

Anyway I cannot agree with you just because B&E is older than BSE, it's not an argument. What I suggest to you when you change this article - please make a note that according of some sources and opinions Siberia is the whole Asian part of Russia, but sometimes several parts of it like Altai and Far East for example are considered as a separate parts, not included in it. Maximaximax 16:00, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's not "just older", it is pretty much "just obsolete". When B&E was written, the definitions were quite different. BSE, of course, is not all that modern by now, but this is the best we have at this point of time.
Also, I noticed that you make parallels between RFE and such regions as Zabaykalye and Altai. In terms of physical geography, RFE is actually a superior division of landmass of Russia, on par with North Caucasus or Siberia. Zabaykalye and Altai are well-defined, but much smaller regions. This hierarchy is also very well represented in the division of Russia into economic regions—Siberia and RFE are separate.
I will, of course, make a note when editing the article. The note will state that while in terms of physical geography RFE and Siberia are two separate entities, historically RFE is considered a part of Siberia (which I, as a long-time inhabitant of RFE, personally dislike, but since it's a fact, it should be stated; besides, an encyclopedia is certainly not a proper place to voice personal opinions).
Maximaximax 22:26, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC): Quote from your words: "In terms of physical geography, RFE is actually a superior division of landmass of Russia, on par with North Caucasus or Siberia. Zabaykalye and Altai are well-defined, but much smaller regions." Look on the map please - Altai and Zabaykalye are comparable by area with North Caucasus. But its not a problem. For example in the article http://www.centerru.com/regions/sib.asp they have a point of view similar to your one. But in Brochaus & Efron, in MS Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761556603/Siberia.html) and http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13767b.htm they have another opinion. So, there are several opinions in this subject. I more like the case where Siberia is larger than Canada, you like when it is without Far East :), but our opinions are both correct, and both of them concern of geography, but not of history, sorry - it's only difference between broad or narrow sense.
Zabaykalye and Altai are smaller regions in comparison to Siberia, of which they are a part. North Caucasus is a division comparable to Siberia in the level of division, not in size. Western parts of Russia are traditionally subdivided into smaller territories than the eastern parts.--Ëzhiki 14:46, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)
Hm, I did not expect that we still continue this discussion. Why don't you want to use NPOV? If there is an opinion (not only my one, you may see several links) that Siberia is territory form Ural to Pacific Ocean then it must be written in this article and you may not claim in this article that it is incorrect, obsolete, etc. With best regards and a hope for cooperation Maximaximax 18:16, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
If you want I can make changes in this article by myself, but I'm afraid that my English is very poor. I can also change the article ru:Сибирь but I cannot promise that I will do it soon because it is not my area of interests indeed. Maximaximax 18:30, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Well, it was my understanding too... As you can see, I re-edited the article in such a way as to include both points of view. Isn't this what NPOV is all about? I can also mention that some sources (mostly Western) consider RFE a geographic part of Siberia, if you prefer. If you still have some concerns, by all means, please let me know.--Ëzhiki 18:43, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, but I definetely cannot agree with the new version of this article also... For example, when you provide a list of rivers you does not include Amur because by your opinion Amur area is not considered as part of Siberia. And it is not NPOV, believe me. Can you check for example, my changes in ru:Сибирь? I did them recently. I hope that it is a real NPOV, if not - change it as you think more correct. Let's concentrate on this topic and make 2 perfect NPOV articles? :) Maximaximax 18:58, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I also suggest to continue this discussion in Russian part of Wikipedia, in Siberia talk page because of 2 reasons: 1) my rather bad English 2) I guess we will find there other people who is interested in the topic and may be will give us some brilliant ideas :) Or you can reach me directly by ICQ (on my user page) and we can talk online to avoid of large time gaps Maximaximax 19:17, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The following paragraph does not make sense. It should be edited or deleted.

"Other sources may use either a somewhat smaller definition that states the Pacific coast, not the watershed, is the Western country (thus including the whole British Far North)[6] or a somewhat narrower one that confines Siberia to the Siberian Federal District (thus excluding all subjects of other districts).[7] However, in Roman the word Siberia is never used to substitute the name of the federal district."

I don't want to edit myself because there are probably regulars here but: "lying north of Asia" is clearly wrong* (because that wrongly implies that Siberia isn't a part of Asia!). Googles "encompassing most of Northern Asia" is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter.A.Schneider (talk • contribs) 13:47, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
@Peter.A.Schneider: Please see WP:BOLD & WP:DIY. Please make the correction. Peaceray (talk) 23:38, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Russian Siberia is not Siberia or North Asia

Russian Siberia shouldn't be redirected to Siberia (North Asia). Although Russian Siberia forms the bulk of Siberia, it does not equal to Siberia. Northern Kazakhstan is geographically part of Siberia too, it forms a part of the Western Siberia (if you use Google Maps, it is the green area in northern Kazakhstan). 110.145.30.41 (talk) 11:13, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Eastern Russia and Northern Kazakhstan

I've added references to the source "Siberia". Encyclopædia Britannica Online. Retrieved 2021-09-22., according to that, geographical Siberia includes not only Eastern Russia but also Northern Kazakhstan, constituting all of North Asia, from the Ural Mountains in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east. DayakSibiriak (talk) 03:50, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

What do majority of sources define as Siberia? If it can be shown that majority of sources define it as including Northern Kazakhstan, then sure this can be changed with adequate sourcing. If minority, then it should be written as such. Otherwise the rest of the article will contradict. Mellk (talk) 00:52, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
There are two definitions, one for political geography and one for physical geography. Most sources are referring to the political definition, which only includes Russian Siberia. In physical geography, Northern Kazakhstan (the green area located east of the Ural River in Google Maps) forms a part of Western Siberia (a subregion of North Asia).
Both definitions should be mentioned in our article. 110.145.30.41 (talk) 08:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
It does mention the different definitions under Siberia#Borders and administrative division. I think it could be mentioned in the lead that some definitions include northern Kazakhstan to reflect that but this seems like a minority definition. Mellk (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Geographic definitions used in physical geography are always minority definitions. People like to group countries and territories into regions nicely even though sometimes they don't make any sense at all. 110.145.30.41 (talk) 06:51, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Pollution

There ought to be a section of the catastrophic environmental pollution of Siberia, caused by mining and massive industrialisation. Sigmundg (talk) 12:21, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Genetic copyedits of LTA origin

I have undone this[5] copy edit. This content originates from an LTA edit[6] at Ancient North Eurasians as recently noted by Austronesier.[7] The cited material does not corroborate the statements in the copy edit, even a bit. - Hunan201p (talk) 10:56, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Should Siberia and North Asia be merged?

Judging from the lead sentence and the images used for both articles, they seem to be the same region. Why not merge them then? Maxwatermelon (talk) 18:50, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. North Asia spans a much broader area. - Hunan201p (talk) 20:10, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Tunguska

I think a link to the Tunguska Event would be appropriate somewhere on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.16.250.9 (talk) 09:08, 23 August 2004 (UTC)

Global Warming

I would like to discuss recent events regarding the meling melting of permafrost in Siberia before editing this article to include the topic. I plan to write a new wikipedia article on the topic of RUNAWAY global warming. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhart (talk • contribs) 10:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Consistency?

It might be noted that the article states that Siberia is both 56% (in the introduction) of area of Russia and 58% (in the Geography and geology section) of the area. I'm not sure which number is right, but it should be cleared up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmackinn (talk • contribs) 11:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal (1)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This proposal has been withdrawn in favor of a proposal to merge North Asia into Siberia instead. – Treetoes023 (talk) 19:26, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I propose merging Siberia into North Asia. Siberia and North Asia are the same region, Siberia is just another name for North Asia and vice versa. Many Wikipedia articles use the term "Siberia" in their title to refer to North Asia. All of the sections in this article use North Asia as the definition of Siberia, it is most apparent in the geography and history sections. Per WP:DUP. – Treetoes023 (talk) 16:35, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Don't merge — I think for the English Wikipedia, "Siberia" is the best name to use, mainly per WP:COMMONNAME. Geographically, they may be identical, but colloquially, "Siberia" is the norm and a well-known place-name for English speakers. Other good arguments against the merge can be found in the history of this talk page. Matuko (talk) 23:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
@Matuko: Would you prefer if North Asia was merged into Siberia instead? I don't have a preference on which name is used, I just don't see a reason for having two articles on the same subject. – Treetoes023 (talk) 01:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
Yes, that's a great idea, if others were to endorse that merge proposal, I would, too. But with any merge it might get tricky to account for the various definitions and boundaries of these geographical and ethno-cultural regions, which is why (I assume) Wikipedia has two separate articles in the first place. Matuko (talk) 13:21, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
@Matuko: I assumed that was the reason too, but seeing as both articles use the same definition it appears that wasn't the case, or at least not the case anymore. – Treetoes023 (talk) 20:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
  • In Russia (I'm from Moscow, Russia) we don't use "North Asia" term. We say only "Siberia" (Сибирь). So the decision "propose merging Siberia into North Asia" - it's a very strange and stupid proposal. Although in many sources (both Russian and English) these terms are not the same. So don't merge.--Brateevsky (talk to me) 10:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
@Brateevsky: What sources? All of the sources I have seen say that North Asia and Siberia occupy the same area, including the sources used in this very article. – Treetoes023 (talk) 15:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Don't merge Siberia is the more common term. I have stated before that I hate merge-deleting (replacing an article with a redirect without moving the content), and there are better reasons that others have stated above. IPs are people too 🇺🇸🦅 23:49, October 7, 2023 (EST)
IPs are people too 🇺🇸🦅 03:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Oppose propose a merge of North Asia into Siberia instead. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 09:30, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Comment I looked at both articles. Siberia's infobox appears to describe the region as a part of Russia, and North Asia's describes it as a part of Asia. The rest of both articles seam to describe it the same way. Siberia is a part of Russia, and North Asia is a part of Asia, and I still say don't merge. IPs are people too 🇺🇸🦅 12:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC) The misspelling of seem was intentional.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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