Talk:The Estates

Merge?

Rather than scatter merge discussion over the place, let's centralize it at Talk:Estates of the realm#Proposed merge -- Jmabel | Talk 08:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

That particular merge discussion resulted in a decision not to merge this article to that page. However:

1. This page still needs some fleshing out.
2. States-General now exists as a disambiguation to just the French and Dutch institutions.

I think States-General should redirect here, and I'm open to ideas for fleshing this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Diet of Porvoo

There is a difference between The States and States-General, the first is a sub-national assembly, the later is a general assembly of representatives of (or to) the local States.

I have a personal interest in exploring the difference. In 1809 the tsar of Imperial Russia, Alexander I called the Finnish estates to assembly in Porvoo. Later Finnish historians see this event as the birth of the Finnish state and nation. Russians historians (as well as tsarist bureaucrats during the russification period) may see it differently.

The crucial question is whether Alexander called the assembly of the States or the States-General. This is the difference between a nation and a subnational entity.

Modern Finnish texts are of little guide on this issue. The Diet of Porvoo is in Finnish called "Porvoon valtiopäivät". The word valtio refers to a true "Westphalian state". However the word valtio was unknown in 1809. Contemporarily the assembly was called maapäivät.

Was maapäivät a States or a States-General?

Petri Krohn 03:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Moved discussion on Finland specific issues to Talk:Diet of Finland. Petri Krohn 03:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Coming along nicely

Wow! This page is really developing nicely! Good job everyone! Ewlyahoocom 09:10, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The (United) States

The phrase "The States" is common enough to perhaps warrant mentior or redirect - its a casual/slang term frequently in use by Americans abroad or English speakers, to refer to the USA. Note hugely central, but I admit I came accross this article out of curiousity of what would appear after reading the entry for "Blighty" on wikipedia. Dxco 05:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Certainly not a redirect, but could get a hat text. - Jmabel | Talk 19:37, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

This is already covered in State (disambiguation), which is in the hat text. Wikipedia is not a dictionary of colloquialisms. In fact, I had to fight to even keep it on the dab page. -- Petri Krohn 06:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree because people don't refer to the United States as "State" but as "The States", those two words specifically, which is exactly the title of this article. Having the reference to the United States on the disambiguation page is rather unnatural. FP 07:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move Duja► 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

---

The States → The Estates — less ambiguous? —Ewlyahoocom 04:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Probably not. Instead of a dab header to the United States, we'd need a dab header to various articles on inheritance law. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • The Estates already redirects here, so if we needed that dab header then we'd probably already have it, yes? Ewlyahoocom 07:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
• Support It sounds clearer, even if both are just as correct as far as I understand. -Ulla 08:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
• Support, or I wouldn't have proposed it. Ewlyahoocom 07:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Bad idea!

The move was a very bad idea. Now we have:

1. Newbies moving the redirect The States to the United States
2. An ugly ass dablink on the top.

Besides, most of the incoming backlinks are to "The States". -- Petri Krohn (talk) 02:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

In fact this has proven to be a very bad idea! -- Petri Krohn (talk) 11:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Redirect to United States

"the States" is now redirecting to "Estates of the Realm". Nothing in that article has any reference to "the States" either in bold as a title word or within the text. I will redirect "the States" to the United States now, unless there's a valid reason for redirecting here, and please let me know if there is. Mistakefinder (talk) 01:36, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Another user changed this to a small disambiguation page, and I guess that that is the best solution. Bever (talk) 21:37, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

New merger proposal.

There is a new merger proposal. I thought the old one was killed in 2006, and again in 2010. Nothing new has occurred since then. There is still a difference between a parliament and the social classes therein represented. Creuzbourg (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)