Talk:The Teachers of Gurdjieff

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Bibliography[edit]

Which of the books in the Bibliography actually refers to the book by Lefort? Or Gurdjieff? Or non-Shah material on the Naqshbandi Order? I suspect only the intro essay to The Way of the Sufi, so will remove others if nobody objects. Jedermann 11:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scott's book does refer to Gurdjieff, although not to Lefort's book.Nctrlaltdel10:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the section on pseudonymous books by Idries Shah, "Scott" is listed there too, although some think it was written by Shah's buddy, Edward Campbell. This article looks like an unnecessary POV fork designed to recruit people to the Shah camp. I suggest it's merged with Idries Shah. Jedermann 10:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the Campbell theory see Ernest Scott (pseudonym) Jayen466 19:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be okay.Barring objections.

I would object, since the intellectual copyright for The Teachers of Gurdjieff, judging by the distribution of translations, does not seem to reside with Idries Shah's estate, as it would if he had written it. Jayen466 02:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bennett[edit]

There is no proof anywhere that J.G. Bennett has written this book. Bennett even mentions in his book "Witness", that this book was most likely written by Idris Shah. He was wrong, it was written by Omar Shah (some of his pupils told me so).

Bennett doesn't say that in "Witness". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.189 (talk) 23:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd never seen an attribution to Bennett either. Thanks for the additional info re OAS' authorship. Jayen466 19:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When Idries Shah was accused of writing 'The Teachers of Gurdjieff' under the name of Rafael Lefort in the Alternative London Survival Guide, he wrote to the author of the guide Nicholas Saunders saying that this was not the case. The letter exists in some form and was printed by Saunders I think. The idea that Omar Ali Shah could have written something as good as the Teachers of Gurdjieff is far fetched. Anyone who has read Omar Ali Shah can see that he could not write very well and had limited vocabulary, while this book is very well written and is an excellent page turner.--Wool Bridge (talk) 20:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think OAS's books are mostly transcriptions of his talks and thus not really an indication of his writing skills – given that he collaborated with Graves on the Omar Khayyam, one would think he had some sort of ability with the written word. And translations of TTOG are/were mostly published through his set-up, rather than Octagon. I've read people assert in the strongest terms that OAS wrote it, but what do I (they) know. At any rate, it is irrelevant to this article, as we are required to rely on published sources. Jayen 466 00:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rafael Lefort[edit]

If you type in Rafael Lefort in Ancestry.com dozens of entries appear in Quebec (with a ph spelling) and I imagine if the same search was done in France where RL is supposed to have come from, many more will surface. It is not an improbable name as James Moore has suggested. Moore was just too angry and obsessed to make an objective search.--Wool Bridge (talk) 22:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would still to seem to have been a pseudonymous book. Writing pseudonymous works was a Shah family tradition; Sirdar Ikbal Ali Shah did it according to Augy Hayter, even organising writer workshops who would output children's books and romance novels to make ends meet, Idries Shah wrote pseudonymous potboilers, his pupil Edward Campbell donned the pseudonym of an "Ernest Scott" to write a book much influenced and published by Shah ... and btw, Omar Ali Shah produced a translation of the Rose Garden. There need not have been any Rafael Lefort, Arkon Daraul, HBM Dervish etc. Jayen 466 23:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]