Talk:Thimi Mitko

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OR deductions[edit]

While the source says [1], Alexikoua made an or deduction. Btw that's from an article he wrote about the region of Epirus and its Christian population, not just modern Albania in 1879 when large part of the region was awarded to Greece, although after the 1880-1 negotiations because of the activities of the League of Prizren only Arta was ceded.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 10:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The source says it clear: in general when a source says it clear it isn't an wp:or deduction. Morevoer, a strategy of blindly removing sourced material can reveal an extremist nature Alexikoua (talk) 13:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The source doesn't say your or deduction and please avoid WP:NPA. Btw I asked from FutureP to intervene, because otherwise this will become another WP:IDHT case(like the Turkoalbanians one).--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 13:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lets sum up:

Article	Source
Mitko in one of his works claims that the majority of the Albanian people supported the idea that they should remain part of the Ottoman Empire.	[[2]]An Albanian nationlist, Thimi Mitko, wrote at that time "Albania is with the sultan and against the Greeks and only a few of the Christians have their hearts with Greece.

If that's wp:idht then someone has a real problem in understanding both article&source.Alexikoua (talk) 14:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rephrasing your deduction [3][4] doesn't make it less or Alexikoua.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 14:04, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's exactly what the source says. Please don't use it as an excuse for misinformation and trolling (what was wrong with Turkoalbanians by the way?)Alexikoua (talk) 14:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I personally believe that article and source are very close to one another and see no major problems, with the statements. Can you both help me a little with Skanderbeg rather than wasting time on Mitko? How many times do I have to tell you that we do one article at a time together, rather than waking up and fighting in 3-4 articles at the same time and solve none of them? --Sulmuesi (talk) 16:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the last sentence being relevant with anything. Looks like Vasilis Kondis made a discovery on finding an article where Mitko says that the majority (Muslims) of Albanians don't have their hearts with Greece. Ok, so?
Most important, does anyone have the sourcebook of Kondis? I'd like to see the reference he uses. Cause, Kondis is not the model of neutral Greek academic, I know him as a Vlach originating from Korca, very aggressive toward anything Albanian.
But once again, what is the relevance of the statement? I know Mitko was a filogrek, like Vreto. Their initial idea was a common Albanian-Greek state. This might be relevant, if someone has references, to show the progression of Albanian national conscience during time and its variations.
Mondiad (talk) 02:15, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that, taking in consideration lack of scholarly studies about Albanians before late 19th century, Mitko's discoveries are important and should be presented to the readers.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Mondiad: Mitko was initially "filogrek" but finally became anti-Greek and pro-Ottoman. If you don't trust Kondis you can read Schroder [[5]].Alexikoua (talk) 17:14, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexikoua

He as well is referring to three Albanian books from '58 to '67. The communist history I have been told at school states that "some patriots initially wanted a common Greek-Albanian state, but later they understood the danger and changed position".

Just read the last paragraph once again and you'll see that sentence does not fit anywhere. It might fit inside a section with Mitko's "Political views" or "Political positioning", etc and there is no such.

Regarding Kondis, he cannot be neutral even if he wants. Without judging his intellectual background. He is claiming and screaming that he has a house in Korca which belongs to him. His political views toward Albania are not a secret. No wonder he wants to show Mitko as a pro-Ottoman, which he was not. But if Mitko states that most of the Albanians would rather stay in Ottoman Empire (back then), considering the continuous expulsion of Muslims from newly created states in Balkans, that is a simple statement. Mitko is just making a statement on how the situation is. It is not that Mitko's political ideal was an "Albania inside Ottoman Empire". There is no added value for Mitko here. That is my point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mondiad (talk • contribs) 18:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Schroder makes detailed description on his pro-Ottoman-Young Turk activities: he worked in an Ottoman newspaper for one, İsmail Hakkı Bey from Dibra, he also published pro-Turkish material in Fiamuri Arberit. Kondis is fully confirmed in detail.Alexikoua (talk) 19:50, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt if there is now a decent argument on removing the pro-Ottoman attitude of Mitko. Kondis and Schroder are two credible academics.Alexikoua (talk) 20:22, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]