Talk:Zayanderud

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Comments[edit]

"Rud" or "Rood" (river) is a part of the name in this case. In Persian, when Rud is added as a suffix to the name of a river, it is considered as a part of the name. Examples: Zayandeh Rud, Sepid Rud, Siah Rud. It is better to say Zayandeh Rud (River) rather than Zayandeh River. Instead, when Rud is used as a prefix, it can be translated to River. Examples: Rud-e Karun can be translated as Karun River. 130.102.71.38 (talk) 02:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Indeed, Zayande-Rud is a compound word (not a two-word phrase). Names such as Zayanderud and Sefidrud are like Nowshahr, Kaliningrad, Salzburg, ... in this regard. Alefbe (talk) 18:41, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth the U.S. Board of Geographic Names lists this one as "Zāyandeh Rūd".Kmusser (talk) 22:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Almost nothing. The BGN is providing a systematic transliteration from the Farsi, not an English name. It does, however, provide sufficient reason to spell with a terminal h, as we had been doing. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The diffference between Zāyandé-Rūd and Zāyandeh-Rūd is the difference in transliteration and it should be dealt with its standards (it's not finalized yet in Wikipedia, but there might be a consensus in using ALA-LC romanization for Persian). The discussion here is not about that. It is about translating parts of a compound word. I say that this is not consistent with the common tradition in English books (and we shouldn't write it as Zayandeh River). By a simple search on Google Scholar or Google Books, you can see that Zayandeh River is not commonly used in English texts (compared to its transliterated versions). Alefbe (talk) 20:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And the answer to that is simple: do what English works of general reference do; so, largely, is the question of spelling. Library of Congress transliterations are rarely (and are not for Farsi) the usage of works of general reference; they are systematic transliterations intended for those who already know Farsi, as a device to represent Farsi letters on a Western typewriter and subject to Western alphabetization, from the good old days of card catalogs. That is not our purpose, and we should avoid it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In English "Zayandeh" is more commonly spelled with an "h" and without diacritics. The exact form of a Farsi word does not dictate its form in English. The river is referred to commonly in English as the "Zayandeh River". Which, prior to July 2009, was the most common usage in Wikipedia articles. --Bejnar (talk) 12:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, Zayandeh River is not common at all, in English texts. In English books, you can only find 161 (compared to 464 for Zayandeh-Rud). In English academic papers, the situation is the same (52 for "Zayandeh River", compared to 253 for "Zayandeh-Rud"). The issue of ending with eh or é is a separate issue and is related to transliteration it should be dealt with its own standards. I'm fine with moving it to "Zayandeh-Rud", but "Zayandeh River" in not acceptable (it's like Kalinin City instead of Kaliningrad). Zayandeh-Rud is a compound word and the name of the river is "Zayandeh-Rud" (not "Zayandeh"). Alefbe (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I should add that the notion of "the most common usage in Wikipedia articles", that you mentioned, is quite meaningless and it's not a criterion at all. You moved the page in July 2007 and you changed the name of this river in many Wikipedia articles. Now you refer to your own edits as a criterion?! Alefbe (talk) 15:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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