User:Fred.e/Archive

The following is an archive from Fred's discussion page. For current discussions see User talk:Fred.e.

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Jewish Memorial - KP

I didn't have enough info to be happy to add a section, also it was a very good subject for a picture but unfortunately it was vandalised about 3 months ago along with 4 other memorials and they are yet to return the damaged column. Gnangarra 23:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Lawrence et al

I don't know that there's much I could say, apart from a welcome - it's nice to see some of the WA politics articles getting a bit of attention.

As for the Easton affair, you might want to be a little bit less confrontational in your approach - Snottygobble, for one, is a brilliant editor, and doesn't even have any right-wing sympathies that I know of. I'd also be wary about removing too much information on the Easton affair - while it was a complete and utter beat-up, it did effectively end her career, and deserves some attention as such. Rebecca 01:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Snottygobble is by far the worst Australian editor I have viewed working. Do not expect much from him other than to ignore you and than call you a troll, and than block you indefinitely. It would not surprise me if Rebecca was his puppet either as they seem to work well together. 02:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)Loveingsydney

Fred, User:Loveingsydney is a sockpuppet of indefinitely banned troll/vandal User:Licinius (aka User:NSWelshman) who regularly attacks Snottygobble. Ignore his comments. -- I@n 05:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

George Temple-Poole

I've never been 100% certain about his surname being "Temple-Poole" or "Poole" (ie. Poole, George Thomas Temple). The ADB says the latter [1], but I've seen more than a few instances of it being hyphenated. Any ideas? -- I@n 07:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I've left a note on I@n's talk page re this one SatuSuro 10:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I have started a user sub-page for a draft article "George Temple-Poole". Here 'tis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fred.e/George_Temple_Poole

Trains and Trams

Then yesterday on abcfm 10 am interview was a rail/tram expert which i only got snatches but a good analysis of trams and their fate in australia.

Timetables - one good source is ARHS (this weekend literally - sunday at arhs basso - there's a swap which will probably have timetables maybe?) they have sets of 'monthly notices' which include things in that as well. SatuSuro 01:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

found some transcripts from ABC RN, guessing that is them. Looks interesting. Fred.e

Nah - ABCFM the 10 am interview is diff from RN - will have to track it down later- SatuSuro 03:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply RE Alan Moore

Thanks for taking the time to drop me a message about my edit to the Alan Moore page, it's good to bump into friendly Wikipedians! And by the way, I think you may have a point about him deliberatly using the word 'pornography' - I saw him in conversation with Stewart Lee a few nights ago and he admitted that one of his reasons for using that word was simply so he beat the critics and naysayers to it. Well, that and the fact that it *is* clearly pornography (at least judging from the few panels I have glimpsed!) I suppose :) Curiousbadger 22:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

i highly recommend this site [2] for Stewart Lee stuff, particularly as there is an Alan Moore radio interview available to download. Not the Lost Girls one, sadly, but that's the place to keep an eye out for it I reckon. Curiousbadger 12:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back

No worries about the trams I thought that was probably what you wanted, Welcome back the the real world BTW Gnangarra 23:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

George Temple-Poole

Good work Fred. By convention here, we would name the article as above, not "Temple-Poole, George". I see from your research that his mothers maiden name was Poole which helps explain a few things. I agree with useage of the hyphen to clear abiguity. A section within the article explaining the name change would be a good thing I reckon. Give me a note when you copy it into the article space. Regards — Moondyne 01:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking like an interesting article. I fixed some links dab Swan River colony, C.Y O'Connor (wonder why he has a "."), John Septimus Roe. If you can provide a link to the cartoon I'll check the copyright status. Gnangarra 01:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Re name sorting and lists: Manually created lists obviously can be in any order, but when we add a person to a Wikipedia category, there's a little trick called "category sorting": at the bottom of the article you'd add [[category:Australian architects|Temple-Poole, George]]. This would cause him to appear in surname order in the category list but display as per his article name. Have a look at say Talbot Hobbs to see what I mean. — Moondyne 00:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I couldnt give it my attention - about to dissapear - hey keep the good work up! SatuSuro 00:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Current state of the article - its looking great! well done! SatuSuro 23:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Top job! This is worthy of going to the Wikipedia front page at WP:DYK. All it needs is a tagline, such as: "... that George Temple-Poole was an noted colonial architect who designed many public buildings in Perth, Western Australia as well as the layout for Kings Park?". Wodya think? — Moondyne 02:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I would second that, and the advice is coming from our own local DYK champ! SatuSuro 02:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

On December 9, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article George Temple-Poole, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

...speaking of which here it is Fred. Keep it up! We'll have a strong WA contingent with you and Moondyne firing on all cylinders! Happy editing, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work again Fred. Its important that we keep those Croweaters honest, so every bit helps. —Moondyne 14:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Western Australian WikiProject

I am back online now and willing("the gumption") to start the above but am new to WP. Is there a template to start such a thing? Regards Fred.e 16:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I recommend a read of Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide; that page includes lots of useful information, and yes it will point you to a template.

In my experience this is too big a WikiProject to expect one person to get up and running on their own; and WikiProjects are supposed to be collaborative anyhow. I would discourage you from trying to put together a well-defined, well-scoped, well-written project page. Instead, I suggest you start as follows:

1. Create a page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia, with a section entitled "Members" or "Participants", but very little meaningful content;
2. Advertise it widely; people will add their names to the list, and in the process the project page and its talk page will end up on their watchlists. The content-free page will motivate people to begin defining goals, scoping and discussing the project, and the subsequent discussion will reel in more suckers.

That should be all you need to do; I have no doubt the project will gain traction in the WA wikinerd community, and the other WikiProject tasks - templates, article assessments, to-do lists, etc - will inevitably follow. Hesperian 06:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

PLEASE read the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide like it was a matter of life and death - so that you understand the ramifications of what you are doing. Please take counsel from longer time wikipedians very carefully. Other than that enjoy! SatuSuro 08:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well um - the message on my talk came as a red-link - no matter - best to copy and paste the title of the project so you dont forget to put the whole title in Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia its easy to forget the full title... I do with the maritime project... The emphasis on the message above is as much a reflection on my own starting the maritime project last week - Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian maritime history - I should go back and re-read the guide - so its important to keep up with what the official versions of reality are - but Hesperians advice is good. Cripes two new projects in one month - we are a fecund bunch here in west oz! SatuSuro 09:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I am sure there are some very good shakespearian quotes that could be put on some eventually populated western australia project page - !! SatuSuro 09:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you've got it! I think there might be some good quotes from Randolph Stowe (Tourmaline) Veronica Brady and Dorothy Hewett - but that's have to wait till 07 when my shed is sorted... :) SatuSuro 09:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I setup the early stages of WikiProject Australia and would be happy to lend a hand getting your WA project going if you ever need any help. WikiProject Military_history was used as a starting point and I based a lot of WP:AUS on their excellent work. In addition to Hesperian's good advice above, I guess what you need to do now is register some interest with other editors then define the scope of the project so you can all get to work. -- Longhair\^talk 09:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I'll join the project as such. I wouldn't be much use, having never set foot inside Western Australia in my life. I'm happy to sit on the sides and help where I can though in a technical sense to get you up and running. I don't think any other Australian states or territories have begun a WikiProject as yet, but there's plenty of others about to base your work on (you don't need to find a geographic WikiProject to learn how it's done, look around more and you'll see some good idea in action). -- Longhair\^talk 10:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries Fred. I have diverse interests so I should be able to help with a few things. Grant65 | Talk 14:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject Western Australia

As you are a member of WP:WA, I would like to invite you to add a userbox I created for the project. It looks like this; User WikiProject Western Australia Cheers!--M W Johnson 23:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

RE:Western australian wikiproject

I would love to join the project. Hossen27 00:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thoughts on talk page

wadjela and wadjuk? I think to me at least this is something I am not sure of.. perhaps a clarification is need to a Darling Scarp inhabitant? (ok I _used_ to live in freo but that was in a previous decade or two...) SatuSuro 01:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries

Ah - I see what you mean :) My biggest strength is geography and politics - each of us has our own strengths (and weaknesses, obviously - there's heaps of things I don't even pretend to know anything about) and the combined sum is what makes Wikipedia and these WikiProjects so great. Orderinchaos78 13:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Never mind

This user has admitted to being geographically challenged... long may he live and work in wikipedia in that state -(maybe he lives in west Fremantle... :)

SatuSuro 13:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Whee! My second award. Fred.e

...::Thanks for your lead on on the wadjuk - your link had been to the Perth, Western Australia article - it is possible to direct strait to the article itself with Wadjuk - and dont forget to sign. Some more heavily stressed ediors would also be quite alarmist about messages snuck into earlier talk items - thats why they ask for new ones to be at the base of the page so they can keep up - specially heavily used talk pages.... For me for some very strange reason it reminds me of the layout of the freo markets, and I can think of different people I used to know who worked/owned some of the stalls at different times in the last thiry years - so it dosnt bother me... SatuSuro 14:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:WA Userbox

Thanks! Glad to see you like it--M W Johnson 22:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Swan River mania

I created the stub for Swan River mania, your input would be most welcome, Hope we can get Convictism in Western Australia over the line. Ghostieguide 23:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I wonder is the story I was always told about people bringing their grand pianos (expecting a mansion or such when they got here) and having to dump them on the beach true? Orderinchaos78 13:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Re:wikEd - nonWP qu.

WP:WA is going well. Great work! I saw you mention fire fox. I just downloaded it and wikEd but it seems to take a while to load pages. Should I persist with it?

I've never heard of Firefox being slower than IE7; most people think it is faster. Perhaps you're comparing cached IE7 results with uncached Firefox results; you might see a speedup once your Firefox cache is populated. Yes you should most definitely persist with Firefox, because it is the best browser in the universe.

As for wikEd, I'd never heard of it before seeing it in your edit summaries; after a brief look at User:Cacycle/wikEd it seems to do some good stuff. e.g. I'm sick and tired of copy-pasting wiki text into Notepad in order to do a find-replace. But if I have to have that horrid "using wikEd" in every edit summary, I don't know if it's worth it.

Hesperian 23:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, well I suppose wikEd would rather slow things down, considering User:Cacycle/wikEd.js is 214 kB long. This gets injected into every page you view, so by using wikEd you're increasing the download size of Wikipedia pages by around a factor of 10. Hesperian 23:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the informative response. No toolbar. I've used popups but don't anymore; it is pretty useful but I got sick of the bloat. I use AWB when I want to roll out a lot of small changes e.g. I used it to tag WP:WA articles today. I've also been known to roll my own bookmarklets on occasion. Hesperian 10:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. And my apologies for accusing you of being an IE7 user. ;-) Hesperian 11:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

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Reference/s

Seem to recall reading in a wikistyle guide that plural is optional. I see both in paper world. Ta for ISBN fix. Fred.e 17:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, MoS has changed now. Rich Farmbrough 19:04 20 December 2006 (UTC).

You can point it out on the talk page of the appropriate MoS. I come down on the plural, while I am against computers making number mistakes in onter contrexts, I prefer the consistancy. I also run an automatic process updating articles with more than one reference or external link, which ususally runs to several hundred fixes a month. I would prefer to see a consistant plural, than singular wrong in places. Rich Farmbrough, 16:48 21 December 2006 (GMT).

Template:South Australia

Hi Fred. Could you please suggest on Template talk:South Australia what further shrinking you would suggest for {{South Australia}}? I have changed it to remove one bunch of stuff I thought not needed, but added a different bunch. We might as well get this one "right", then you could replicate it for {{Western Australia}}. Thanks. --Scott Davis ^Talk 02:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcoming

Oi - Hesperian would not be impressed! Try his name not snottygobble - thats history! cheersSatuSuro 23:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure after a good night's sleep, SatuSuro will realise you were making a joke. And giving some good advice too. Hesperian 23:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Bleah, never never never will law enforcement stuff on anything - I would say the old logo from the Relax in a state of Excitement number plate would be more inexplicably sexy and friendly...SatuSuro 00:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't make gratuitous references to my former username, but neither do I shirk from justifiable ones. Your thoughtfulness was appreciated, but I'm not bothered that SatuSuro de-bagged the cat. Hesperian 00:13, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Dont touch the stuff myself (brewers dict that is) and apologies for my reaction - trust the cat is doing well (hope I have confused the categories sufficiently) SatuSuro 00:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:WA

Hey, thanks for the message. Don't worry about the tram article, just a simple misunderstanding. I am not sure whether or not I will join WP:WA, maybe in the future when I feel there is some take-off. Thanks, --Ali K 00:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

New article

Thanks for the folow up - always amazes me how much there isn't yet on the Wikipedia :-) Now back to my wikibreak - I am not good a staying away :-) !--Golden Wattle ^talk 01:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

RHSV

LOL @ "fly-by-night". As for the RWAHS, that is a different story... Grant65 | Talk 03:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

LOL = "laughs out loud". Merry Xmas. Grant65 | Talk 19:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Message from a knob

Great bloke, dumb name - thats all I can say. You can call me snotty if you want Knobcheesedeluxe 03:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

can you change your name and migrate all your history etc across? Knobcheesedeluxe 22:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Edits came through a treat. Im glad some people are interested in my ramblings. I shall watch out for stupid edits though.Fancyfootwork 04:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Please take note of what constitutes an article - some of your edits will attract blowflys if you dont learn up on that - anyways - hava good christmas !SatuSuro 09:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

An Automated Message from HagermanBot

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 19:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Is that so?

Hello dear homonym

hi, i've read you message on my talk page, but, uh, i think i have not properly understood what you asked me... FreD 10:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Noongar

Hi Fred. I tried signing up to the WP:WA page and could not manage it. Any help gratefully received. John D. Croft 17:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Which edit?

sorry that shoiuld have been on footworks talk page not yours. Better grab a beer, archive and sign off while the going is good. hgave a safe one! SatuSuro 10:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Apologies - sent another email SatuSuro

B. brownii

Thanks! This was WP:BANKSIA's first featured article. We've also got Banksia integrifolia featured, and I think this is even better; it could be a while before we can get it on the main page though. There's more in the works too: Banksia epica is very very close to a run at WP:FAC. Yeah, the Australia-wide map is okay for a worldwide audience, but a bit silly for Australians. We tried a WA map for B. epica, and it think it's the way to go in future. Hesperian 12:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

RE:Perth, WA

Thanks for all guys your messages! I would be most happy to participate in those projects whenever I am available. Belated Merry Christmas!--Alfeewusy 05:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

B. epica

An idea for your Banksia Project. How about the whole continent and an inset map showing finer detail. I browsed a few more of these pages, a worthy project. Another idea, linking dieback to that DAB. Best wishes for season. Fred 09:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for feedback on Talk:Banksia epica; you make a good point; I'll change to the Australia-wide map for now. As for the inset proposal, it sounds like a good idea, but Gnangarra is our map guru, so best ask him. However I think these things usually work by having the broader location inset within the detail e.g. An map of Australia inset into the map of WA. Hesperian 10:53, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I seen this discussion, had thought that way but was taking easy wayout, currently doing B.telmatiaea so play abit before uploading. Gnangarra 11:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Linking to disambig pages is generally considered not kosher. Usually the temptation to link to a disambig page is a symptom of the target not being a bona fide disambig; i.e. it provides information specific to its title in addition to disambig links. On a couple of occasions I have converted a disambig tag into an article, then linked to it. For example, one could change dieback to an article:

Dieback refers to any of a number of plant diseases and conditions that cause leaves or branches to die back, hence the name. Specific diseases and pathogens include:

...

I can't say I am particularly tempted to do so, as I don't think "dieback" has a sufficiently coherent definition to warrant an article. Hesperian 11:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

That's another good point... which is probably why I enjoy discussing these things with you. Yes, it would be a useful and worthwhile page that allowed readers to determine which specific disease is meant by the term "dieback" in a given context, for example a given country, ecosystem, plant species, or symptom. Whether that page would be an article or a disambiguation page is a semantic argument in which I have no interest. But I know I would be happy to link to it. Hesperian 12:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Suburbs and Hamersley

Ideally I'd like to get ALL Perth suburb articles that good. I've been working on a list of them for a while now, but keep getting distracted by other projects. I got the politics template done a couple of weeks back, and have added it to about 10 suburbs - I'm still trying to decide what way to go with it before deploying it too widely (see the talk page at Template:Australian Politics Suburb - there's two formats, one same as the manual ones, the other self-designed - see [[3]] for an example of its use) Thanks for checking it out :) Orderinchaos78 13:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Colours come from another template, Template:Australian Politics Party Select - *anything* can be changed on the "short" version as no pages deploy it yet. The other one is a templatised form of what many pages already use and reduces the time and effort required to do those (I'm thinking around elections when one might want to update over 200 of them, I can key the results into an Access database and just spit them out as nicely formatted templates rather than reinventing the wheel every time). Hamersley's my baseline, but note that until a peer review tonight it was a much shorter article :) The standard the others are at is most likely better represented now by Stirling or Watermans Bay, both of which I brought up from stub status. Orderinchaos78 14:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh and my reason for designing the short template - I can get Fed data back to 1984 (when they introduced polling place level breakdowns in the statistics - prior to this it was "subdivisional" and can't be made to correspond with suburbs) and State data back to - well, pretty much whenever. I've got back to 1962 on my computer and I'm sure I can squeeze more out of the Battye if they'll let me. All part of an unrelated off-wiki project I'm working on. Orderinchaos78 14:25, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Swipe away :) The whole idea of making good templates is to use the good ideas of others. Many of mine originated with Template:Infobox Australian Place, a template that about nine of us designed, including two real code experts. That in turn was developed from the now deleted Infobox Town AU which no doubt had its own genesis elsewhere. BTW the colours for parties for the main template actually come from the manual efforts by others, mine are basically consistent with theirs, but the short template the colours were my own (designed to be a lighter colour so I could put text on them). Still not sure how it'll all work. Will email in a sec. Orderinchaos78 15:26, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBNs

Hi Fred, I don't see the word "invalid" as chastising. "Wrong", or "mistyped" I could perhaps at a stretch, but invalid is just a factual statement - clearly the source the editor is relying on can have an invalid number. I could perhaps rename the category to "articles which appear to include ISBNs that according the the rules of the internationasl ISBN agency and the appropriate ISO standard are invalid, but of course all points of view are equally valid"... I have after all renamed the template "Please check ISBN". Although I am not currently changing 10 digit ISBNs to 13 digit ISBNs, and will not resume in that form until more of the industry has completed the change, rest assured that invalid ISBNs were not being changed. Indeed one of the reasons for checking all ISBN-10 check-digits in 84,000 articles was to ensure that this didn't happen. Rich Farmbrough, 15:02 27 December 2006 (GMT).

HI Fred, I've fixed the ISBN in George Temple-Poole . Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 15:00 28 December 2006 (GMT).

Burrup Peninsula

Hi Fred, no objection to Burrup Peninsula move. Yes, I know I should get a user page going. Thanks for the hint. DRyan 00:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Phytophthora cinnamomi dieback in Australia

When I wrote that section of Ecology of Banksia, I made a mental note to come back to P. cinn. in Australia some time. The impact of the P. cinn. epidemic in the south west is just awful; it is astonishing that there isn't more public awareness of it. Hesperian 04:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Waiting

For something to happen before I speak... it hasnt happened yet - if youre still up down their by the briny (had two of my kids out on the leeuwin this later arvo- pm) SatuSuro 16:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for cleaning up that comment on my Userpage. Gnangarra 17:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks (re TP jargon)

I've placed the source docs up at my sandbox for now. Orderinchaos78 21:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries. The story unfolding there is quite interesting. What do you want to know re Battye? Orderinchaos78 12:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

What the?

Dont put draft - its there- and if anyone want to edit - they will - too bloody self concious mate! Anyway - whacha doing up at this time? this is when the red link osessivess from ta udda side of da world get up yeah? SatuSuro 17:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Gawd ya lost me - bit like my time of living on high street in the 70's (ie I think i was lost then)- I think we have a slippage here somewhere - anyways i'm off in ten SatuSuro 17:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:WA

The layout edit was taken off my user page, which adapted from someone elses User. Playing there fixed a problem I'd finally worked out a problem I'd been having with my version. The best way to find these type of gems is follow those editors who used the colourful signatures back to their User pages. then copy the section to your User:Fred.e/sandbox and play away. Just remember to remove any category links otherwise your sandbox will appear in some most unusual places, some editors dont always appreciate the funny side. Gnangarra 14:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Dont try to learn everthing at once its more fun stumbling around in the dark, if I can help just ask. If I can be of any help leave a message. Gnangarra 15:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

From my talk page: "Hi, I note your WP:WA project user, box but you can add you name to Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia#Participants too if you wish. Hope to see some contributions on the SW soon. Regards, Fred 06:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)" Thanks Fred, have done so. I contribute a bit when time permits. Cheers, Callophylla 07:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

gogo

Funny you shoiuld mention that at hesp's talk page - I just brought the book by john long about all that at new edition books in freo last week! SatuSuro 15:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW - always reverse enginner others user or talk pages if you see stuff that looks good - its the only way! SatuSuro 15:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah you do it I should be down - my three children have to go to swimming lessons early tommorrow - I'll have to give up late night wikipedia for two weeks! bah! SatuSuro 16:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh this comes back to me - there is something in your wikipedia preferences - if you cannot fix it tonight - I know gnangarra is good at this from memory - hey gotta go now - catch ya tommorrow SatuSuro 16:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Definitely your wikipedia preferences - and the editing section - worth experimenting with to check it! I gotta get off now! now...now.... 16:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Hope you solved your edit issues...gone SatuSuro 16:30, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

---

I see it too. Mediawiki gets confused placing those [edit] link when there are a lot of right floats (images, tables, etc). For a while there SatuSuro had floats in three or four consecutive discussions, and all the [edit] links got shifted down. I see this in article space sometimes too. I think of it as a rendering problem, not something to be corrected by fiddling with the page. You get used to it after a while. Hesperian 23:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Go cat

Hi, if I was feeling bolder I would add thylacine to your creation. Ref: Murujuga, but there is no citation template for rock paintings.

• [[Category:Amphibians of Western Australia]]. My contribution to your new cat, my version of a barn star. Two parents and one article. A bit nerve wracking the first time creating one. I found my sandbox in a couple cats when I was even newer here. Report errors pls. Regards Fred 15:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, you were in the category for a few moments. Also wondering now if this should be a list? Fred

Yeah, I think we'd probably get into trouble if we created a {{cite rock art}} template. And it won't be verifiable anyway once Woodside has finished with the Burrup. I think some bones have been found in the Kimberley too? Probably something about it in McNamara & Murray (1985) Prehistoric mammals of Western Australia.

Thanks, I'll take improving the encyclopaedia over a barnstar any day.

If you want to link to a category instead of putting a page into that category, put a colon in front of the word "Category", e.g. "[[:Category:Amphibians of Western Australia]]" makes "Category:Amphibians of Western Australia".

Both. We should create a List of Frogs of Western Australia, and categorise it into Category:Amphibians of Western Australia.

Hesperian 23:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Caves

Is a project we (hesp and I have talked offline) do not encourage. Please emailme if you want a full thingo with bells and whistles on that one SatuSuro 15:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep, been there, done that. That's not to say a List of caves in Western Australia wouldn't be appropriate - it would. But we would have to take a degree of care in what we list and how we present the information. Probably start with just the "tame" caves, and only add those wild caves whose existence is well-known and notable e.g. Devil's Lair. Hesperian 22:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Frog pic

I don't mean this in a bad way but that frog pic looks terrible. I'm going to see if I have a better one of one of ours (we have a pond and some really cute ones of said species). Orderinchaos78 09:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I did check first. :) It's just ours are a lovely green colour and that one almost looked like it had taken ill. (I don't have any great photos, sadly - just scanned through over 40 in my collection and can't find any good closeups - couple of funny ones though! Such as this one) I've been busy taking photos round the north today, and will be working on Hamersley once again this evening. Orderinchaos78 09:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Just around the HDS area - south of Hepburn, north of Reid. And yes - he does look a bit delinquent! Orderinchaos78 11:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Stuff

1. I like the way you stuck a taxobox in WP:WA and have been rotating WA fauna through it. I hope you're going to do flora too?
2. I'm intrigued: who were you trying to "prompt", and to do what, with your frog image?
3. WP:RM is for when you want to make a move that only an admin can do (which this wasn't, and I'm an admin anyhow), or for highly controversial moves that will likely get you in trouble if you don't advertise them widely (which this wasn't). For mundane moves, an informal discussion on the talk page is ample. I've made the move now, anyhow; if people don't like it, they can always move it back. The unfortunate reality is that the only people likely to even notice this move are our good friends Ghostieguide, Gnangarra and Moondyne. Oh, and SatuSuro, who notices everything.

Hesperian 10:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

For whathisnames sake what anm I blamed for now? SatuSuro 11:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing. Generally, we put an article in only its most specific category; i.e. we don't put articles in both a category and a supercategory of that category. For example, we wouldn't put an article related to the history of WA in Category:Western Australia; we would only put it in Category:History of Western Australia.

We make an exception when an article belongs in a subcategory that doesn't exist yet. For example, if a frog occurs in WA and the Northern Territory, we would want to put it in Category:Amphibians of Western Australia and Category:Amphibians of the Northern Territory. But the second of these doesn't exist yet, so we put it in Category:Amphibians of Western Australia and Category:Amphibians of Australia. Its placement in the Australia category signifies that it occurs in Australia outside of WA. However, (I'm finally coming to my point) with frogs like the Sandhill Frog, which occurs only in WA, it is sufficient to put it only in the WA category. Sorry to have waffled on; does that make sense? Hesperian 10:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow I think that you just wrote to me about L. dorsalis at the same time that I was writing to OIC about the same species. Great minds think alike, hey! Hesperian 11:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"But for this thread"? - any sockpuppetteer worth his salt has conversations with his socks every now and then. This would probably be used as evidence. ;-) Hesperian 11:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The potential to follow this thread is enough to tempt one to log out and send the message via the isp number SatuSuro 12:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you lead me to that one with patience? I t looks like something I need tocleanup SatuSuro 14:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Dosnt seem to be anything amiss that I can see there? SatuSuro 15:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Ta for that - three others have some odd bits too - so I am not alone....oh well back to 57B in the days of charlie....(ie where 3 or more were gathered in forrest place) cheers (I'm off in every sense now) SatuSuro 15:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to work it during daylight hours my head is in need for shutting down - thanks for letting me knw anyways - have a good sleep( do you? ) SatuSuro 15:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Frog pic stuff

Why would you want to claim overseas frogs for the project? If you want to create articles for the WA frogs, then I am all encouraging. Though, be aware, they will probably be heavily edited as there are a few Aussie froggers on Wikipedia (you may notice that not one Aussie frog article is a stub). I will ask on WP:WA for some frog photos, especially up north. Was that what you meant by "request image experts"? Thanks. --liquidGhoul 12:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh... Those species which cross the sea are only in New Guinea, such as the White-lipped Tree Frog in northern Qld and New Guinea. Not many from New Guinea made it all the way across to WA, the only I can think of is the Australian Green Tree Frog. Check out Fauna of New Guinea for more info on our shared natural history, and Amphibians of Australia for the more specific frog relationships. I have left a note on WP:WA. Thanks. --liquidGhoul 12:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Rightio, thanks. There are quite a few species which do it, Litoria bicolor certainly isn't the only one. --liquidGhoul 13:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

WA Frogs

Fred - I will help if I can but am in Sydney so will not likely take any pix anytime soon :) cheers Cas Liber 19:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Taxobox

I updated the taxobox, are you familiar with the wikipedian who produced it? Fred 14:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

What a beautiful image. Produced what? - the taxobox template? The taxobox was made by Pcb21 before my time. By the time I started here, all the bugs were ironed out and it was in use all over the place. I was around when they brought in the new optional parameters syntax; what a dog's breakfast that was for a month or so - articles broken all over the place. Since then it has been a team effort to evolve it into what we have today. Hesperian 00:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. Wow! He doesn't have much to say, but what a great set of pics! Hesperian 22:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

hey

Thanks for the warm welcome, I am hoping to fix up some articles from the Wheatbelt because some are pretty basic and I can get books in the local library on those. I picked four at random, Corrigin Mukinbudin Trayning and Nungarin and only two of them have articles!! I read WP:CSB like both of you suggested and there's some good stuff in there, they keep talking about other countries but I see a real lack of good WA articles outside the Perth metro area and yet you look at Victoria or NSW and they generally have quite a few... Orderinchaos suggested we should have an Article Improvement Drive as part of the new project, I think that sounds like a good idea. DanielT5 13:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

thanks for all your help, I am amazed how friendly and helpful everyone has been here, I've been on here for 2-3 months and seen some of your names already but only rego'd this week. Big contrast to the wars and fights that go on in some other places... I want to do Mukinbudin first because the article is not good at all then I'll probably do Nungarin and then Trayning and others if I get time. Meckering is also pretty awful, I mean that was a major historic event!! Also Landcare because it's got notices all over it. DanielT5 12:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Carmen

Your friend is back at Carmen Lawrence and Talk:Carmen Lawrence. Will you revert again? Hesperian 10:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Very funny. On that note, I find it strange that the article doesn't mention her marital/family status. I believe one of her sons is a notable-ish musician? Hesperian 23:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Indig Aust

Hey, I was just doing my job as RC footsoldier :-) But thanks for the compliment - Myanw 15:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The messages I got to Moondyne and Tone and Myanw suggest alert eds more than anything ethnic -the bugger was so quick - if you have never heard of willy on wheels and its lightening quick massive vandalism - the thing was a legend in its time.... well worth trawling wiki for the legendry vandals - makes you glad that there are more things around to watch and protect things.... SatuSuro 15:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

RC patrol is an interesting and challenging vocation in life regardless of time zone - you can find vandals in the strangest places on the planet - and sometimes they get warned before they know whats happening - although like the IA one - they more or less play games with bots. They are worth their weight in platinum and titanium - they keep the flotsam floating in th ether rather than leaking into wikipedia! SatuSuro 15:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

If you get the pop up java based thingo (gnangs good at exlainng it) you can get em with popups too. I gotta go gotta pickup son number one for swimming this am hes on a sleepover on the sand flat - speak to you later... SatuSuro 15:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups it the thingie SatuSuro is talking about Gnangarra 06:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you sir - you may proceed! SatuSuro 06:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Handmade

Please consider using the human touch instead. You changed a direct quote. I will be back with references to educate you on capitilisation. Why don't these bot edits post their changes to talk pages where stakeholders (actual editors) can see them first. You cost the above people, at least, time in correcting your automated, and unreviewed(!), edits. It "tedious and repetitive" to be beta test for you bot jockeys. "Anyone can edit" - not anything! Fred

P.S. response at my talk page please. Maybe you can make a bot to post your apologies without the disgruntled needing to watch this (your) page. Sorry that you are on the receiving end of my frustration with bots. Fred 15:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Fred, please could you tell me what article you're referring to? I'd like to make note of it in my exception list so my bot doesn't make the same mistake again.

I can't speak for other editors and their bots, but the reason I don't post change requests to article talk pages is because it's seems overly bureaucratic given the trivial nature of most of the changes my bot makes. (Do you really think I should post a message to the talk page for 'Fossicking' asking should I change 'a icence' to 'a licence' for example?) I'd also like to pull you up on your claim that my bot makes unreviewed edits. It most certainly does not. I look at every single edit my bot makes before approving them. Unfortunately, I'm only human and I do occasionally slip up and approve an incorrect edit. On the other hand, my bot has made 100,000 edits at this point, and I've got <120 comments on it's behaviour, and not all of them complaints. That's not doing too badly I think. Also, I already as a matter of course post responses to both my and the original poster's talk pages, so the snippy comment was unnecessary. Cheers, CmdrObot 20:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Dryandra Woodland

Fred, thanks for your comments on the talk page. Everyone loves a compliment, me included. I'll look at expanding it per your suggestions and would be grateful for any more you can make. I might go to peer review after a few more editors have done some copyediting - I'm not in any rush. Cheers —Moondyne 08:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

edit

If youre up/around I think we have a problem at freo - I'm about to do a welcome - it might need a b/iu I am likely to go down early this pm SatuSuro 13:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

heheh I gotta havabeer withya sometime! SatuSuro 22:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

aargh it should have been b/u as in back up as in watching in case welcomed joe bit back at all...:) SatuSuro 02:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thing is the welcome I use which is 'subst:welcome' is a bit limited - I like longhairs - (its in my swamp/sub page) but I'd leave the line about becoming admin off... :) SatuSuro 06:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Try this

[Wikipedia:Introduction|Welcome to Wikipedia]], the free encyclopedia! You don't have to log in to read or edit articles on Wikipedia, but creating an account is quick, free and non-intrusive, requires no personal information, and gives you many benefits, including:

• The use of a username of your choice, provided that it is appropriate.
• The use of your own personal watchlist to which you can add articles that interest you.
• The ability to start new pages.
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• The ability to customize the appearance and behavior of the website.
• Your IP address will no longer be visible to other users.

We hope you enjoy your time here on Wikipedia and that you choose to become a Wikipedian by creating an account. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have on my talk page. By the way, you should sign your name to your posts and comments with ~~~~.

* Gawd I'd never encourage this: -

• The eligibility to become an administrator.

I think it looks better than

Welcome!

Hello, Fred.e, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! 

Welcome Fred! Hope you enjoy your time on Wikipedia! ;) (sorry, someone had to do it) Orderinchaos78 11:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

So there your examples SatuSuro 07:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Week

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you for your work to WP:VIC. Punk Boi 8 09:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Fred, chat with

Hey I like your style - they must have different water in the taps down your way! SatuSuro 10:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey I was on the leeuwin just the other week. My youngest offspring knows Never Eat Soggy Weetbix if that is any help SatuSuro 12:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Can too? yeah do it man- if you can find em and put em in ! Trust all is well down by the wharf, im off early tonight - seeya! SatuSuro 15:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

:)

LOL cool man that would be awesome hey did you know my favourite band once played at the local rec centre? They're really kewl, let's put their names and photos and mothers' names on Wikipedia so people will know they rock...

Um, yes, anyway. Glad you took it in the spirit it was given :D As for how I'm going, decent - most of the spot fires around the country seem to have been put out and we're even getting some unexpectedly positive results here and there. Orderinchaos78 12:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I noticed that! Good work sorting that out. Orderinchaos78 12:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

No idea. I take what is offered happily however :) Orderinchaos78 13:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I am seriously hoping they are not expecting 48 stubs by the end of the week. I've just created one. Orderinchaos78 15:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Arrgh at sunset coast - your magnificent grasp of the simple epithet might be worth a splatter there too15:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Convict era of Western Australia

Replied on my page Ghostieguide 12:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

RE: Freo Town hall.

Hey. If you want to change anything, go ahead, it isnt my article :). Just a query.. you said "The opening occurred on June 22, 1887", the article says this date... Just wanting to know why you singled it out? Thanks once again, --Ali K 11:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I understood from before. That's what my written reference says, but there could definetly be a flaw in it. Have you found a reference to say they were working 10 years ago? --Ali K 00:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey. You made me smile, thanks :) I see your point, fair enough now :) Suggestions for similar articles?? Please share! --Ali K 13:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Red rocks

Hey they're all red! You want blue? I once worked in an academic library where all the reserve books were bound red - the librarians working in that section had the younger freshers who would come in and ask I'm looking for a red book..... I would say that the list will be lucky to get 50% populated with blue in our lifetime :) I would make a rough estimate of 30% not notable and stay red - 30% marginal stub status - and 30% notable start staus - and 10% notable mid status - but I wont put any beer on that one! SatuSuro 12:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

If we ever find an idle gullible - wiki project victoria is dead as a doornail in a mafioso's cemented boot - there's a category - australian articles without a project - and heap of victorian railway stations in it! that'd be like something to with frank zappa or captain beefheart with baileys chasers on the 2 am shift eh what? SatuSuro 12:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I cannot remember which other one saw it and said theyd fix it - maybe Trout mask replica was gonna fix that - maybe he and Hot Rats need to be gently reminded its a problem :) SatuSuro 13:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah I know - you're off to get the early dispersal of World of Warcraft update at 8 am? SatuSuro 13:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey fred, I understand what you are saying but just to clear things up a lot more for me, what are you referring to (I know it sounds stupid) but I think I know,

thanks for your help :]

symode09 01:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Female is not synonym for woman

NO, Ill ignore the feminist wisecrack. Im just trying to maintain the integrity and beauty of the english language. Ohtherwise we might as well just go round grunting. Lentisco 04:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

As I have said begfore the word 'female' is not an interchangeble exact synonym for 'woman' it never has nor will be. Consult a dictionary. You may learn something. Lentisco 05:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Fred, your comments at Lentisco's talk page were pure gold; I laughed my head off. I think Lentisco put his position a bit too absolutely, making it an easy target for your sarcasm.

But I must say I find myself agreeing with Lentisco here. "Female" may not denote biological gender, but it does connote it; and "woman" connotes gender as a social role/construct (I'm not up with the feminist / gender jargon, so I'm expressing myself a bit clumsily). In this case, biological gender is of course utterly irrelevant and non-notable - no-one cares that Lawrence was the first Premier of WA to have a vagina. What is important is that Lawrence was a pioneer in the movement of women into positions of leadership. i.e. it is her social/cultural gender that is important here. I think "woman" says that better.

"Woman" is an adjective according to my dictionary, but it sounds dodgy. A simply rephrasing would do it:

"Carmen Lawrence was the first woman to become premier of an Australian state."

Hesperian 06:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: cats and lists, I can't say it captures my enthusiasm. Lentisco's position will be either gain ground and take over Wikipedia, or it will not.

Re: Lawrence, I not sure why you don't think it is an achievement. I think it's generally accepted that barriers to entry of women into positions of authority have been gradually falling for a century. Was Lawrence merely in the right time at the right time (i.e. not an achievement)? Or did she have special personal qualities that enabled her to become premier in an era where residual social barriers would have constrained a lesser woman (i.e. an achievement)? We could debate this forever, but I suspect the answer can only be "a bit of both".

Hesperian 04:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

SL

Sorry for not replying to your comments on my talk page just yet - will do so very shortly.

Noticed you were looking for collaborators to drastically improve Socialist Left about 3 months ago - I'd be happy to help though not sure what I could do exactly! I doubt a lot of the material could be referenced reliably as it's largely about backroom deals and the like, which parties usually officially deny exist. The page was brought to my attention when it was used as a justification for claims made in an edit to a featured article. Orderinchaos78 15:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I think tonights late night live about marx (not groucho) might have intrstd youse guys - i was listening to it while going down a spooky mart of mundaring weir road between kalamunda and the weir - stuff of b grade movies - gareth stedman jones and phiip adams and all those jarrah trees with no kangaroos jumping out - typically the dead one was on the other side of the road closer to mundaring.... SatuSuro 15:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Easton was just an excuse to conduct a royal commission I think. The SA State Bank is missing from that list (curiously do you know the development of Mindarie Keys marina took up an entire chapter of that enquiry? was great for verifications...), not to mention the enquiries every state but one has held into their police services (some would argue ours was the least effective), and the various RCs and CoIs held into non-punitive matters over the years, some of which were quite interesting to read. I actually find a lot of these commissioners actually *try* to make their reports interesting and intelligible. The Joondalup inquiry (into the failed council there over the sacking of the CEO) was truly fascinating! BTW... you've got mail. Orderinchaos78 16:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I get the point and feel a little bit idiotic :P

Thanks for forwarding that. Talking to ghosts now, are we? Friends with the wikipedian who works at Freo Prison?! Yeah, so thanks, at least I get the point. Either the author of my reference was lazy, or didnt know how to add the yeah in which the "architects" commented. The funniest thing is that the picture that the caption is from says "Fremantle Town Hall, 1887. ...(insert quote here)...", and the picture does indeed look like it is old. Maybe a case of abiguous wording that has changed over the many years? Thanks again, --Ali K 01:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah, relax. You're fine. If anything, you are increasing my enjoyment :) So dont get wrapped up in small things! --Ali K 07:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Trust there is no WP:PA or contraventions against any personages on the List of haunted places here... :) SatuSuro 10:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have lost a thread somewhere!? Is there something I need to be aware of. Fred

Sorry - outwith the SatuSuro translator again (no babel fish here) - My reading of what Ali K had made an allusion to user ghostiguide in the first line - so I thought I'd follow on ( I was actually here to say BTW you have en email) - with a sendup! SatuSuro 10:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Huh? Now I'm lost aswell. I wasnt attacking! I just couldn't think of their name, and didnt want to go searching.. *gives SatuSuro the wrong end of the stick*. Why use email when I can use the talk page. Besides, If you suggest I use email, it is almost as if I should be talking about him behind his back... :)--Ali K 12:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah - nothing to get lost about. Look at it this way - usually by Friday night Gnangarra and I get to having very cryptic messages to each other - at the end of the week to let off steam about some of the intriguing vandalism, very very lame edit wars and the trials of real life and wikipedia - so am I at a bit of a loss with gnangarra technically offline (but not enough for him to send a very cryptic message avbout a revert I did on Perth, W.A. article. - where from I have no idea) so I thought that I would try it out on Fred - but usually the more meaningful messages between fred and self have been in the past at about 1 am or later - :) So now when I realise I have drawn others in I withdraw any accusations of anything - they should have been predicated and surrounded by :) and ;) to have indicated that the comments were meant in jocularity, humour and flippancy (all the good traits of any long term editor on wikipedia) - but obviously my allusions have been taken unforntunatel;y the wrong way. My apoligies to all! Cripes I have 56 western tasmania references to revert - I think I shall go there and in the words of the earlier Australian hero (New Zealander of course) Fred Dagg - I'll get out of your way!! SatuSuro 12:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Well almost after a bit of stalking... Fred claims he sleeps - my interactions with him at 1 am plus must put him in the realm of my 16 year old whos clock is in total reverse at the moment -wow all night and sleep all day :) thank god when holidays finish!SatuSuro 12:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

:) Have a good one. --Ali K 12:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

stubs and related things

I do apologize for missing your comment on the 13th. I only access Wikipedia very very briefly on the weekends, so things often get overlooked. I do apologize for that.

I understand that there is a lot of activity going on around Western Australia and that many people are putting a lot of effort into improving those articles. However, that doesn't mean that you can create stub templates/categories however you please. WikiProject Stub sorting is intended to organize all stubs into one place, so it is much better to propose things there first. If there's a bona fide WikiProject involved, the proposal pretty much always gets approved. This is one of those cases where it's better to ask permission than to ask forgiveness.

I am not sure how my nomination was "beyond your scope of deletion nominations". I found a stub template and category that wasn't proposed, had limited scope, and was undersized (at the time of nomination). Those are definitely grounds for deletion, so I'm not sure where your comment is coming from.

Regarding your second comment, I suppose you could call me self-appointed regarding closing SFD discussions. There are a few other editors, like Alai and Grutness who close discussions occasionally, but I tend to stay on top of things more often. As far as actually closing the discussion, I look at the votes and try to see what the general consensus is. A lot of the time, it's pretty obvious and nearly unanimous. If it's close, I get out my notepad and tally it up. I also tend to give more weight to people who actually voice an opinion rather than just "Delete per nom" or things like that.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "Your statements seems to imply that you, as an individual, have the authority to make decisions. I had thought the decision was being made below your introductory comment and that your role was to mediate this." The process goes like this: Someone puts a stub up for deletion. People debate the stub. After 7 days is over, someone closes the discussion according to consensus. Finally, an admin can delete the stub if that's the decision. Anyone can do any of these steps (well, except the admin part, of course). I hope that answers your question, because I'm not positive I understood it fully.

Again, I apologize for not responding to your first comment. Hopefully I've been able to clear a lot of things up. Have a great day and happy editing. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 20:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

You rang?

SatuSuro 00:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Always when in doubt do a headsup at moondyne/hesperian/gnangarra is if looks like another dmin up to no good...:( or cultivate the friendly ones who might be online - drop a code word... SatuSuro 01:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Thin! SatuSuro 02:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC) Please look at the categories within which Megawati Sukarnoputri exists (ie check out her page and the categories there) - this may be of no use... SatuSuro 02:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

INsufficient sleep and a few other issues transported me back to sydney and the word you wrote was transvestites (It could be my kids watching j tv in the background)- I better get on with serious editing...SatuSuro 02:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mr Bean of course! SatuSuro 02:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Has that rogue page list of peoples innrds with bits and pieces been fixed yet? SatuSuro 06:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Gawd it was in my childrens infacny that the bloody abc bureaucrats removed saturday lunchtime feorver SatuSuro 06:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting trivia

My attitude is that if it happened and can be verified, hell why not? Wikipedia shouldn't be dry and boring, it should provide an interest level to readers, and often such interest comes back to the nosey human aspect. (The story of Adelaide's central street names is quite amusing - apparently was decided over a game of poker...) Orderinchaos78 02:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Indeginous Australians

All in a day's work. Happy editing to you! Teke ^(talk) 04:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wetlands etc

Hey. Well, they are needed, even if just a stub to begin with. I have a lot to do, so it will keep me busy for a while. Nice article, well researched :). --Ali K 04:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I do not beleive this article should be nominated as a feature article yet, I beleive it needs to improve a lot personally, I am trying to, mabye in a few days

symode09 05:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

If you think you are impatient, you should meet me :] symode09 05:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Pearling

Thanks Fred. I do reall reading somewhere about the 1000km business and aboriginal slavery but couldn't recall the source. Both would be worth adding (esp the latter) but would need a full citation and plenty of detail to get it into context. Can you remember the book title? I'll try to get it if you can point me in the right direction. —Moondyne 08:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Please feel free to expand as you see fit. I don't own the article and am happy for wider participation. Cheers. —Moondyne 10:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

None of us own anything here bar our user and talk pages and sometimes... oh well wont go down that one - I put the bailey ref on the article talk page..SatuSuro 10:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Very weird - it looked as though I had put the task force thingy in - I didnt - but if youre removing you should write an essay on the talk page otherwise....SatuSuro 11:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah - its clear I forget to put smileys in when I write that stuff!! - if no one took anynoitce - no sweat SatuSuro 11:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Aquinas College

Hey, thought you might want to take a look at my comment on the talk page. Maybe give a comment yourself if you find yourself with a spare minute? Thanks --Ali K 11:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I just fell off my chair

You just read my mind... and I fell off my chair laughing. Exactly. You dont want to add your point of view on the talk page, do you? It might help people to accept the changes (which, im not sure I will be doing. I don't really want to be shot down by ex, and current students). Thanks for the entertainment. 5.00am start for me tomorrow, I'll be off within the hour :) --Ali K 11:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Other Wikis

Was there a big group pf Star Trek and Star Wars people here that left? Are there Star Trek and Star Wars Wikis? Since I often work on geographic articles here, we find that some of these articles are often hit pretty hard with commercial advertising, or chatty tourist information. I am starting to try to direct those people to Wikitravel, with links in the exterior links using the {{wikitravel}} template. It seems to be working so far. They can go to another wiki meant for their own stuff and advertise etc to their heart's content. And over there, their contributions might be welcomed.--Filll 13:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hamersley pics

Hey - just trying to decide between the three pics at [4] - which do you think offers the best perspective of the tower? (Note: opinion needed more on location than the present look/quality - photos can always be retaken at a higher resolution or different time of day) Orderinchaos78 07:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments :) The current state of the article was to get it through GA - a higher standard (and considerably more content) is required for FA. If you look at the lead, that's the sort of direction it's taking.

• Photo crop - I'm actually going to retake it (I don't believe the word "Hamersley" is clear enough and it doesn't really show the size of the centre, which is around 2500sqm), haven't quite decided what way to do that though. Any suggestions are welcome.
• Politics box - I'm stuck with the colours unfortunately because although I wrote the box, it was to replace manual boxes elsewhere and is stylistically consistent with those. However, if I go radical and do all the results back to 1971 (can be done), I have the option of internal standardisation.
• Weight of line - which one?
• Benjafield image - entire text around it is about to be completely rewritten and expanded out, so I'll review once I've done that (probably tomorrow). It breaks a heading in mine, too.

Orderinchaos78 14:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Amazing how life has a habit of intervening on one's best laid plans! A stray cat decided to murder a poor little Litoria moorei outside my bedroom window at 6:30am, the latter's baby-like squeals waking me up, and after rushing out to (unsuccessfully) try and save it, I couldn't get back to sleep. So yes, Hamersley is still being worked on. At least it should have an interesting politics and public transport section after today's research! (If you want sheer randomness, look at my recent edits - nearly all of which come from today's readings at the Battye) Orderinchaos78 13:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Jardine and the RGS

As the RGS has somewhat of a military background you could start such a list. Unfortunately at the time the RGS saw that Jardin was worth being elected a fellow. AlexD 16:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Lawrence

Fred, In October you left an unsigned comment at Talk:Carmen Lawrence/Comments which also appears on the talk page. Would you like to sign it and update it re the current state of the article? —Moondyne 03:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Who

Check my contribs - I think its another young one...sigh SatuSuro 11:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Gawd you are more obscurant than me, you have malganant emile SatuSuro 12:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

confirm sent SatuSuro 12:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Too easy I say - three ways to do one thing - gawd complete novices dont get to even know a w a project exist do they? SatuSuro 12:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Dont you dare or I'll hang out your dirty socks in Cowaramup so all the marg river bmws can see it as they break the speed limit.... SatuSuro 13:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

They got blown off by last nights easterlies you'll be pleased to know... :) I have also left a message on the irritable indians talk page as well - try User:PDH if your are seeking further - I think shes good on botanical thingos...possibly SatuSuro 03:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC) No guarantee but When Hesp is back may be better seeing hes been there done that..SatuSuro 04:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Clearly you have not been at the coal face of recent edit wards over the word malay and all the variants (hehehe)- as long as the variant names are included in the opening sentence - all should be kosher imho SatuSuro 04:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Geeze you sail a close tack into the wind sometimes - wimmins colour receptors - before long you'll be telling us that they can read maps! SatuSuro 07:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC) You make a generous help - but I have a strict personal policy of never touching others user pages (thinks its policy somewhere) except in very very very unusual circumstance - but seeing he got so harassed by me maybe - but beware some admins take to that very seriously, just thought i'd tell ya - good that you can help him and he is friendly in response after my barrage SatuSuro 11:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

They seek him here they seek him there - the gully wind driven hills person with the sunburnt bald patch! SatuSuro 03:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Meetup

I think in all politeness we should wait until the others get back from their non-Perth-based wikibreaks before agreeing to anything, much as I'd like to :) Orderinchaos78 13:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW email :) Orderinchaos78 13:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Its time like these we really need a chat room!SatuSuro 13:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

While you're all here, any advice on Image:Hamersley map 2007.svg? :) Orderinchaos78 13:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks good - I'll have a look when I come back to the section, I'm moving onto Demographics, amenities, education and transport. The ABS data is quite comprehensive but is very hard to get one's head around without some sort of representational system. I'm also not entirely sure how I'll reference it as I'm actually summing and comparing results from 9 census collection districts. Orderinchaos78 04:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Public transport now done - it's a self-acknowledged (although well-referenced) mess but I figure it's easier to sort out a mess than to come up with something from nothing at a later stage. I've yet to squeeze the demographics into it, as well. Orderinchaos78 06:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Rewriting PT a third time, this time including demographics. Key is on the way now done but I just wanted to get it done in some way and then fix it thereafter :) Geography still needs some additions or things from other sections moved into it. Orderinchaos78 07:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Should be under {{User WP Clans of Scotland}} Orderinchaos78 11:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Haha cool, thanks :) Orderinchaos78 13:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Batavia

Is that what you wanted (on talk page - Moondyne and self have been in there in last couple of minutes...)  ?SatuSuro 12:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Fred, Batavia (ship) is not protected, and has never been protected that I can see. Are you still having problems? —Moondyne 13:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

You havent answered this lot- before you follow my talk items you fremantlised person you SatuSuro 14:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Stressed by two vandal chases just a bit earlier - hope you understand the context - I send a talk item - find you there seconds later... but you havent got back about this weird and wonderful batavia story...SatuSuro 14:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Should be an email soon (sat around 2pm) SatuSuro 04:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

sandalwood

hi fred,

nice of u to have assumed good faith. but I am still not convinced that a 'non-english' term is required or relevant on that article on en.wiki. I didnt revert because I thought I'll wait for your or anybody else's response before I revert again.

yes, you are right that India is a major center of sandalwood and Karnataka is the 'temple of sandalwood'. in that light, "Srigandha" - the kannada term seems more appropriate than any other. But again, as the article itself mentions, sandalwood is grown in other parts of the world also. So should we be adding equivalents in those languages also? Wont it lead to clutter? Well just some thoughts.

This is not the kind of article I generally edit and I just stumbled here and made that change yesterday. I am not wedded to anything. Thanks again. Sarvagnya 17:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

history of WA

I am aussie :) , I found them while looking through the online collection of maps at the Perry-Castañeda collection, they have some excellent maps there. It is interesting seeing the trans australia railway as a dotted line in the map. --Astrokey44 05:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Ive added the project to my watchlist, heres another one of WA: Image:Nw austrailia 1885.jpg Cheers --Astrokey44 12:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

yikes, well the mistake was in the original filename at the collection.. I shouldve been paying more attention when I uploaded it. Perhaps we should have an article on North Western Australia since that is quite a commonly used region name --Astrokey44 15:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean Image:Australia 1838.jpg? How "Victoria" is in Western Australia! that is a pretty amazing map --Astrokey44 00:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It is isn't it. And Tasmania spans WA & NT! —Moondyne 00:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

nullabor

here here! SatuSuro 13:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Santalum

Nice work with the Sandalwood article complex. I reverted a category change at Santalum spicatum. The article was previously in Category:Flora of Western Australia and Category:Flora of South Australia, but you replaced them both by Category:Flora of Australia. I see why you did this, but the end result is that the state flora categories will contain only endemic flora, which is not very useful. Category:Flora of Western Australia is far more useful as a category that contains all flora that occurs in Western Australia. The hitch in that philosophy is that we would end up putting articles on higher taxa like Proteaceae or even flowering plant in the category, which would be silly. The solution is to categorise at the finest granularity possible. Endemic taxa go into the category, no questions asked. If a taxon is not endemic, then we categorise it only if it is indivisible. e.g. Banksia occurs in WA, but is not endemic. Since we can catch the WA populations at species level, we don't put the genus into the state category.

Santalum is not endemic to WA, and is divisible (i.e. at species level), so doesn't get categorised into the Flora of WA category. Santalum spicatum is also not endemic, but cannot be further divided (i.e. it has no subspecies or varieties), so does get categorised into the Flora of WA category. If S. spicatum had subspecies or varieties, then we would leave it out of the state categories, and do the state categorisation at the subspecies or variety level instead.

Forgive me if I've already said this to you; I've certainly said it to someone, but I don't recall who.

Hesperian 11:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank god someone else admits to amnesia at times, and Is honest about it! SatuSuro 11:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, you lost me at "Re: parent categories". Hesperian 04:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Guelphia

It sure is a great map heh. I'd never heard of it before until Astrokey44 kindly pointed it out above and would love to read the paper referred to in the source. Such maps would be in the public domain as they were produced (presumably) in Australia pre-1955. I really like the 1916 Year Book map also. I've uploaded both and tagged them with {{PD-Australia}}.

• Image:Australia_1838.jpg and
• Image:Map of Western Australia, 1916.jpg

—Moondyne 13:41, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Palm Island ACOTF

Hi Fred.e, just thought I'd flag with you that Palm Island is the current Collaboration of the Fortnight, with your interest in some articles on Indigenous issues I thought you might be interested in participating, if not no worries :) Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 13:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Images

SRO and Battye have money issues - Orderinchaos is the most regular reccent attendee at both locations - best ask him - but when I was working a lot there a couple of years ago -anything that was equivalent to publishing things they wanted money... I do not think anyone has tackled them over something like wikipedia - and I think it would be a very hairy one from memory of what the criteria were for, and what they would consider publishing...SatuSuro 14:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

SRO are generally OK as long as there's no question of privacy or restriction on the records, their answer to my queries has been to consult with the body who produced them. As the body who produced them deny they even exist, they've given qualified approval to my use of their records so long as I don't republish them. SRO did confirm, however, that I was able to use Hamersley map 1968.svg on the basis that it was a published plan, was available to the public, and contains significant interpretation on my own part. Battye, on the other hand, have an entire policy which seems to militate against publishing anything even though they are only the custodians of it. And to be honest, 20c a page for a photocopy is a blatant ripoff. I've taken to taking my digital camera everywhere, although the prints are of a lower quality (but perfectly OK if one is only looking to transcribe the text). Orderinchaos78 14:47, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that - may have to check it out! I've found numerous errors in the DLI/Landgate version of suburban history, so I wouldn't mind having another source when having difficulties tracking stuff down. Orderinchaos78 14:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

re: your comments

I have responded on my talk page. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem -- sleep well (I think your timezone is sleeping). I think there are a few issues here which I'll enumerate:

1. I hope I don't come across as some hardass with a power trip. I really do try to be judicious with the deletes and delete tags (like {{prod}}); sometimes I'm wrong and that's fine (that's another reason for the "open door" message). And I try to be accommodating--If you look at Hesperian's talk page, you'll see that I left a note saying that I'm here to help if he objected to the prod after it was deleted. (He is the article creator.)
2. You're not an admin so perhaps you're not aware, but a whole lot of nonsense comes through and gets speedied immediately. My "open door" message is there in case the user wants more info. After getting X number of freaked-out, curse-laden messages, I decided to put in a little note about being nice (i.e. polite). There are also a lot of non-notable articles just floating out there too, some that have been around for months or years.
3. About the article George Brand, I agree that he's notable, I'm just saying that his notability should be made more clear to non-Australians. I made the same objection to yesterday's featured article, Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, which (amazingly) assumed that everyone who reads English knows what the Challenger was and where the disaster took place. (It didn't even give a country location.) So my objections are not limited to Australia-related articles. :) When I am editing or writing articles I try to put in the notability assertion in the first or second sentence. The details come after.

I think we are both interested in the betterment of the encyclopedia, so our disagreements can't be that huge. :) Cheers, Fang Aili ^talk 17:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Fred, I think the miscommunication is partly because you're not aware of how much utter garbage is coming through the door as we speak. Spend half an hour watching Special:Newpages, and you'll understand the importance of people like Fang who are happy to spend their time deleting utter crap so that you and I don't have to. Most of the crap that Fang deletes would be blatant crud: "OMG!!!!! He is the coolest guy in school LOL" and that sort of thing. But Fang recognises the possibility that one in every thousand crap articles that he deletes might actually have some tiny amount of merit beneath its veneer of bombastic illiteracy, so he leaves the door open for discussion. The delete-stick is a powerful tool that must be used wisely, but I would want to deny Fang the right to make the occasional error. Hesperian 05:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Rischbieth

Fred, Bessie would make a great article and had been in my to-do list for ages (that list has become too large to probable any more!). Any Australian made images pre-1955 are OK to upload. Many image libraries incorrectly tag all of their images with statement to the effect that they cannot be copied without attribution or permission of the library. As far as the pre-1955 images are concerned, this is incorrect and misleading as copyright has expired and they are now in the public domain. You can safely upload and tag with {{PD-Australia}} —Moondyne 00:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy to help and great to put a face to the name. I uploaded a portrait from the NLA at Image:Bessie Rischbieth.jpg which is now waiting for some words at Bessie Rischbieth. This link may find some more images. Cheers —Moondyne 00:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

They're both fine including licensing and don't get too put off - almost anything can be fixed. Which is why civility and always assuming good faith in discussions is paramount. If anyone jumps down your throat because you made a mistake, they're the one whose wrong because they were not cool about it. The only thing missing (and I am the world's worst culprit here - I always seem to forget with images for some reason) is to add a commons category. commons:Category:Western Australia is a starting point to find the one/s you need. Cheers. —Moondyne 03:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that there was a page of some sort here for your addition. - I'm not certain what your asking me. Are you talking about categories? If so, in Commons on the image page you've uploaded, add [[Category:People of Western Australia]]. On the article page here, add the same code. This way the image and article get categorised in the Commons' and to Wikipedia's categorisation system. —Moondyne 04:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, a couple few of things.

1. Pages here automatically see images etc. in Commons. If you upload an image there, by just adding a link in a WP article to the image name, the image will magically appear here.
2. We prefer images to be uploaded to commons, that way other language Wikipedia's can share the same image files
3. You 'can' upload images here (WP) but generally you should only do that if the image is only for the English language Wikipedia. For example to be used in a project page but not in an article page. (I can't think of an example)
4. If a image file of the same name is uploaded to both systems, the software will display the Wikipedia image. You could explicitly link to an commons file by prefixing the link with with 'commons:' eg [[commons:Image:Bessie Rischbieth.jpg]] (which is effectively the same as [[Image:Bessie Rischbieth.jpg]] as the image is stored there only), but I'm not sure why you want to.
5. Commons will not accept 'fair use' images (whereas Wikipedia will). The only images that can be uploaded there must be 'free' of any copyright restrictions. ie. they need to be public domain or have GFDL or suitable Creative Commons licenses.
6. Categories are not mandatory, they are a navigation aid only - nothing depends on them except that without them the article visibility is restricted as many readers navigate by categories

Your upload at Commons for Image:Bessie Rischbieth 1900s.jpg (and the other one) is fine.

—Moondyne 05:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

As long as the img is in the public domain, you can edit it any way you like, so chopping off those NLA banners is entirely appropriate. It is a requirement though that the source be recorded in the image page. I'm looking forward to meetup2! —Moondyne 06:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Santalum album

Now in the article space.

1. It needs a description.
2. There is no record of S. album occurring in WA.
3. Are there any "deciduous dry forests of... north-west Australia"?
4. Any information on ecology?

Hesperian 06:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

1. According to APNI it has been recorded in the NT. I had a brief look for ecology info, but because it doesn't occur (much) in Australia, there is nothing in the Australian journals. Hesperian 12:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Toasts

I completely forgot to have toasts to absent editors and friends last night - next time... also as this friday became more calamitous had more ideas from meeting - will email later in weekend - have a good one! SatuSuro 07:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow how long did you guys stay...you owe hesp a couple of pints? I can now see the advantage of doing the first round... :) SatuSuro 13:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Olivacea

Please. And thanks for the info. —Moondyne 11:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Richard

I bet he was never called dick inthe early 1900's - at least two pints! Maybe you should revert it for us (re conversation at Hesp's) SatuSuro 14:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I was an underg at UWA under Brian De Garis in about 1980 or so - and the south african part of his life was unkown at that stage. I read the newspaper reports and hansard about him but my 3 children and indonesia have done marvelous things for the memory (i speak of it in the third person of course... ) The reverteror the last prior to yourself is an english archivist so unless he came across something we dont know your reasoning is sound. as for hesps instant reccall - wow. wam slam bam etc SatuSuro 14:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have dropped my load at the place - probably over-reacted though. SatuSuro 01:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Gawd I went into the bat - and should have realised - consistency is the issue - so I fixed it. Oh to be at 0 degrees c ...SatuSuro 02:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC) Hesp wasnt impressed btw SatuSuro 14:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Fred, Necrothesp is a very respected editor and your attempt at sarcasm and then this was frankly, rude as well as being unnecessary. Can I suggest you tone down your accusations a bit as I've seen you do it a few times now. Concentrate on editing and leave the bullying and badgering to the kids. I hope you don't take this criticism the wrong way, but I thought it best said now rather than later. —Moondyne 14:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Hangon - I started all this - after not reading careffully enough what hesp had sent me - I'm the one at fault - if I had read necro's reversion properly I would have corrected this issue before it had gone that far - its not fred as I put him up to it... As it was necro more or less ignored my rubbish and carried on as if nothing had happened - very good lesson for self - the essjay message on daniels user page - I should have gone back to the originals to check - I miss-read and simply corrected the very simple problem. Apologies to all - I now wish I had read more carefully the thing that hesp had sent me - I assure you both that I will read into that stuff more carefully in future SatuSuro 15:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)-

I'm not worried who started it. Whats done is done. Lets put it behind and learn something eh? Onward and upward. —Moondyne 15:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Always - the fact that necro was prepared to talk about weather after my stupid junk - we move on, and find the next challenge (and in my case - read the fine print - even if I have to find the magnifying glass... SatuSuro 15:12, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

For the record I assessed what I thought to be the problem on page. I edited based on two similar problems with names I had encountered recently. I stand by the substance of my view that both names can be included. I tried to point this out, however crudely, and was met with an absolute position. Not supportable in this case, I believe. But enough of that, I will take what has been said 'on board' and sail on. Fred

Thanks Fred. I've sent you an email. —Moondyne 01:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Surf

There are maps on the web and there is a list somehwere in a lost sub page of mine - so its more getting a local like hossen to clarify that the names on the maps and lists are kosher... SatuSuro 14:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

List

People of geological importance to WA: Ferdinand von Sommer, George Grey, Joshua William Gregory, Francis Thomas Gregory, Henry Yorke Lyall Brown, Edward Hardman, Charles Grenfell Nicolay, Henry Page Woodward, Andrew Gibb Maitland, Edward Sydney Simpson, Edward de Courcy Clarke. I don't know much about zoologists, and there are too many botanists to enumerate, although Charles Edward Lane-Poole sticks out like the proverbial. Other naturalish historyish types include Otto Lipfert (taxidermist) and William Ernest Cooke (astronomer). Hesperian 23:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Maias - RAOU Bird OZ writerup and I have had a few odd conversations about zoologists and veterinarians (seeing my father was one) - I am planning (if someone esle dosnt get in before me) to do a list of the directors of perth zoo - that should bring a few vets and zoologists out of the cupboard. Dick Perry the forester also the white ant man needs something SatuSuro 00:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the headup on the cons council- must give you the background by email tommorrow - interesting stuff this! SatuSuro 14:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yep, Lane-Poole would be an interesting project. Glad to see you're enjoying him. Hesperian 23:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Afro

Please take this up at WP:AFRO I might have been wrong about adding that template, I'd want to know what others think before we remove it. It's a new project and we're still trying to get the whole issue of "scope" set. futurebird 17:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

talk pages mysteriousl;y inhabited by unsgned fred

the tildes! the four tildes!!! (ok i forget too) the tildes! (put the cat out) the four tildes!! etcx etcc and etc SatuSuro 14:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Apoplogies - shd have identified locations 'twas end of a crazy day...will try to extricte myself with egs not eggs in the face (mine that is) SatuSuro 22:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Indeed - sorry about that SatuSuro 23:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

G and M are on tell em both...SatuSuro 23:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Having said that their contribs pages showed they logged off then, sigh. I have replied as welll :) SatuSuro 02:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

who do you call?

Ghostbusters! :) On a more serious note, it's simple copyvio - if it were me I'd place a note on the uploader's talk page asking them to read WP:COPY and submit a replacement image which is genuinely their own work. Note that FA reviewers are VERY strict about image copyvio (it's part of their job) Orderinchaos78 02:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Speedy's for articles rather than images... there are special tags you can put on which indicate it is a non-free image with incorrect licensing information. To be honest I've forgotten where they are (morning-itis), Gn. and M. are probably closest to that area. Orderinchaos78 02:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually ignore me, I just looked at the page and your action appears correct. Do ask Gn though as he's way more informed than I on these sorts of issues. Thanks for the kind words re H :) Orderinchaos78 02:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Turned out you were right - just wanted to make sure as much for my own knowledge as for any other reason. I was thinking of en. rules when it was actually commons. rules that applied. :) Re: logo and crest - are fine but (a) should be on en, not commons, and (b) should use the "Logo" copyright licence as per Image:City of Stirling.svg for example. As such they should be deleted if on commons, and migrated to en by the contributors. Orderinchaos78 04:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

gn appears to be around SatuSuro 02:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikistalker

Having fun? Prester John 04:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Good novel

If youd mentioned the name at the meetup I would have given you chapter and verse on the john buchan novels - however the 39 steps and greenmantle are a bit off-side when it comes to the original myth... I reckon he on a par with the biblical melchizedek if we are looking at the apparent length of time in which the original was alledged to have lived... In Java - we had multi locational (in space) beings - but not multi timed as melchi and prester seem to inhabit... :) SatuSuro 05:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I have dvds of 39 at least - well worth watching regardless of the simplicity of the plot... Most of JB is now on gutenburg as well... SatuSuro 06:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

City in a city

well i put the extra bit for the pertth thingy - as i figured some perth scotland person might try to cacthup with us at some later date:) SatuSuro 12:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh well hesp did - and now you - cripes before we know it there'll the cat for micronation going in at the bottom! - maybe "frednation rather than fredmantle - (theres some goons in there, as well as john buchan I think) SatuSuro 13:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

You do know that osborne park once tried to become an independent state based on self sufficient agriculture? :) theyd have had to think up a new voiceover for the train because Glendalough was within the boundaries... DanielT5 09:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Cripes I'm gonna haveta archive my dross page if we get stuff of that quaslity - ortherwise the poetry police will be out with glossoaries of spike seagoon and moariarty dancing down shenton road on a blustering winters fright inshfiting on mcgonnagal only when travelling west! SatuSuro 13:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Adam Carr

Please stop trolling Adam. Sarah 08:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Historical Note Sarah (an 'admin') blanked her userpage and the Talk page indicated that she had left the wikipedia community. I had been biding my time before returning to this matter. I felt that Sarah had been rash in making such a strong accusation. My opportunity to discuss the matter has been lost, it would appear. The loss of any editor is a regrettable circumstance and cause for concern to the wikipedia community. 12:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

From Sarah's talk page: "I don't consider myself to be leaving". This probably isn't a good time to be taking it up with her though. Hesperian 12:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply to "Quick Thanks"

Sorry, I only know what I've learned from the article about Santulum album, you got me right on as a spelling geek! Thank you for the tip on government!--Xnuala 14:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I do want to know more! I know I'm replying a few days later, but I was wondering what you were going to share about getting another editor's help. --Xnuala 02:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Her?

Nah androgo-maph- medaphritic (mick jagger in performance sort of thing?) SatuSuro 03:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Cripes what comes off my paste function - This means that rail transport is not economic or practical for a lot of the freight and passenger movement in Australi - wow - yeehah! - i should do that more often - yes it has been raining up here! SatuSuro 04:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The worm farm was showing I need to get outside more often - a bit like [[5]] - showing where the truth really lies... :) SatuSuro 04:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry tyring to sign off for an hour again- only just caught your message - in between gmails etc. need to answer tommorow am - sorry SatuSuro 14:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

AM? nah - will have to gmail an explanation of things - but - coroporate watch and or rottweiller - methingks no so... if there is an isssue better gmail a detailed chaos thingy - so it can be pursued... SatuSuro 13:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

ferd you have delerred gmile - fff - pologizes SatuSuro 14:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Isnt there something in Wikipedia guidelines somewhere about English being the official language of en.wikipedia? :P (<- joke)DanielT5 23:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Aboriginal Astronomy

Many thanks for the comments Fred. Yes it's a rather under-appreciated area of indigenous culture. I'm trying to fix that (the lack of appreciation I mean, not the culture!). I did do a bit of stickybeaking around your part of the world (around Meekatharra) but it was clearly a rather sensitive issue, and so I retreated rather than cause problems. Rayd8 | User talk:Rayd8 08:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Great Walk Networking

Hi Fred, Thank you for your kind comments and support. I, too, was wondering about systematic bias in terms of a possible political preference for a two-party system with more conservative agendas, perhaps. I'd have to think about that some more myself, though. Thanks for the link to the Wiki systematic bias page, too. Kind regards, --Greatwalk 00:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Wesley Page

gday, the statement just needs to be reworded, and i recognise that. As for the Head of the River thing, according to the 102nd Annual PSA Athletics Inters handbook, the previous winners are as follows: 00 - H, 01 - W, 02 - C, 03 - C, 04 - T, 05 - C, 06 - C C being Christchurch, H = hale, W = wesley, T = trinity.

also on the head of the river (australia) article it says christ church won in 2006, and also on the Sport in the Public Schools Association article Smbarnzy 02:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Apologies, didnt realise i cut it, copied it to what you said. didnt even notice what i had done, apologies bout that mayte. once again, apologies. yours, Smbarnzy 09:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Neal Adams and EE

Fred,I understand your removing it for the possibility of introducing a separate page for Growing Earth Theory as derivative of EE. I agree that it weighed too heavily on the page and perhaps belongs in its own space. That said, and though Sam Carey is truly a giant in this field, the research of his ideas continues today by other notable academics and scientists such as James Maxlow and Stavros Tassos. It may not yet have the same perspective of academic notability as Carey's work but it remains true to it. It seems to me that Neal's theory for the creation of matter, though coming from a non-academic source, relies on known scientific data and is one of the few known attempts to explain the phenomenon based on existing scientific evidence. It seems to me that it's preferable to note this continued research rather than to imply that Carey's theory is perhaps dead and oblsolete because it has been dismissed with no continued interest. Also, the comparison to Davinci was not mine, it was cited in the Wired Magazine article which seems to me to be a credible third party unaffiliated source (in addition to Neal Adams explanation as a primary source of the comparison). I did not originally make the comparison. I would agree with you that it's specious if it were to claim that because DaVinci exhibited an understanding in science, then all artists must possess such an ability. Thus your reference to Rob Liefeld would be appropriate. I do not believe, however, that this was the intent of the correlation. It seemed to only cite precedents for an affinity between art and science dating back at least to the time of Galileo. MichaelNetzer 12:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• Sincerest gratitude and admiration for your kind words and support of a subject we both apparently hold as significant and dear. I've taken your advice and hope the work will become an appreciated addition to Wikipedia. MichaelNetzer 16:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Fred. I've taken your second suggestion an created a new page for Growing Earth Theory. There remains perhaps to also add a "See also" link from EET to GET which I'll do shortly. Not to worry about your tone in the first comment. You were perfectly fine and have been as gracious and considerate as they come.

As an aside, I believe the "Obsolete scientific theories" category tag is an unwarranted dismissive POV classification. I've addressed it at the category talk page but I'm wondering how to have it removed from EET without raising the wrath of the mainstreamists. MichaelNetzer 20:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Noted

I'm still working on your comments; fixed the "recognise/identify" one now I think. I don't understand your "precision of your subgenus" question.

You can do whatever you want with your vote, mate - support, oppose, abstain - there's no obligation to conform or explain yourself. I regularly cross the floor on my nearest and dearest collaborators here, and I wouldn't expect anything less of anyone else.

Hesperian 00:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Series names are unique within a genus, so I could crush the "river of blue" infrageneric classification in the lead down to "it is placed in series Cyrtostylis". I'll mull on it. Hesperian 02:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

infrageneric just means "within the genus" or "below genus level". Other than a dictionary definition, there's not much to say to sustain an article. Hesperian 03:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I'm about to archive. Feel free to copy any context from the archive if you want to continue this or any other discussion. Hesperian 03:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[6]. Hesperian 04:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Category adjective

Perhaps one possibility is "non-consensus science". It is an objective definition which remains neutral as to characterization. Most people today identify with non-consensus issues as having aleast a 50-50 chance of being credible. A fine line to tread but may be a good next step, for now.

The trend of my brief time at en is leading me to move on to other more removed subjects, as you suggest. Your comment helps me look forward to it and I'll start looking around at what needs to be done. I've seen pages with projects that need work and I'll look these up again. All the best, MichaelNetzer 02:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• Nice to see that raised a chuckle. In discussing it with editors, perhaps it's possible to consider that there's less concern with what other theories are in the category - whether crackpot or otherwise - so long as the category name isn't absolutely dismissive of credibility. This is a more important issue, it seems. MichaelNetzer 03:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I see that user Tim Shuba has reinstated the Obsolete category to EET. I think I'll pay him a visit him and attempt to have a friendly discussion with him about it. The book would be greatly appreciated, Fred. I'm not comfortable with that you have to purchase it and if I can sway you, I'd suggest to wait a little and see if something else, less expenditure effective, will make itself available. At any rate, my mailing address and contact info are at the contact link [bottom of left menu]on my site - michaelnetzer[dot]com. MichaelNetzer 11:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Definately run your course with it and I'll wait. There is room for discussion here in the definition of the category which states a theory has one of two reasons for being in Obsolete at wikipedia and I'm paraphrasing. One is that it's not the best conclusion that mainstream consensus has arrived at and the second is if it's been falsified. The first reason applies to EET but it does not indicate "obsolete" it only indicates the consensus to have a "better" theory at this time. The second reason might apply to "oblsolete" but it doesn't apply to EET because the theory has not been falsified absolutely to deem it obsolete. Additionally, maistream science itself does not categorize EET or other such theories as "obsolete", it rather indicates that we have better answers now but that might change... until it does, we place these other answers at the forefront. That is science... Not what this dismissive POV Wikipedia category is attempting to impart.

This seems to be an issue which helps en better and more accurately define the conflicts arising between consensus and non-consensus theories. So it's probably worth further exploration....Good luck. MichaelNetzer 13:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Its a terrifying journey

Through th word forestry and all its relatives and categories - to see whether some smart forester has put the whole smaoozle in the forestry resource utilisation category behind the table marked foresters for a free khyrgistan and in the box marked Richard Nixon for inter-planetary president 1955 UFO Convention Duluth Texas and under the files marked forestry terminology for the sawdust challenged.... best wear a breathing assistance device, and take spare oxygen. We'll be waiting at the escape hatch with laughing gas and a large bowl of water with no goldfish inside.. and we'll want the report in english please... :) SatuSuro 06:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The most obvious start is Category:Forestry - a stiff drink, and a trawl of each lest there is a clue...maybe i should start at the stern (sternum perhas?) and you at the bow - and when we have trawled -compare notes? SatuSuro 07:41, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey thanks...

Hi and sorry to respond 3 times on one talkpage ... Thanks for the welcome back, last 5 weeks have been mental. I have enough info to write an article on Nungarin (partly thanks to Orderinchaos78 who kindly showed me around the Battye library) and I want to do one on Mukinbudin and maybe one on historic wheat bins of Western Australia and CBH. I've got so many lectures and events this week though. And regarding political positions, thanks and I appreciate that. I just get sick of people trying to say I'm one thing because I'm another, especially since the WA Nationals are probably more "left" than Labor on some issues these days... DanielT5 09:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I meant Cooperative Bulk Handling, basically THE WA wheat company and an institution right throughout the WA Wheatbelt. started in 1933 and made depression-flagging towns sustainable again through cold stores and wheat bins many of which are now heritage listed. Something I know a bit about but dont yet have all the info, that is only a matter of time though! :) And I'll send you an email so you can bounce it (god that sounds bad when read wrong) DanielT5 09:45, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Email sent btw DanielT5 10:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC) - *bounce* DanielT5

• http://www.cbh.com.au/index.html - its the bins man! the bins! the bins! where some of the black suit brigade on the terrace spent the odd summer of their lives sitting watching lizards and flies inside 50 degree hot tin sheds ... SatuSuro 09:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

This

Is getting very dangerous - its a case of can I show you mine - if you let me see yours - its the bottom of swill - can i do some edits on yours? SatuSuro 10:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Email will have in a sec you have sir SatuSuro 10:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Does that all mean yes? SatuSuro 10:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I suspect you are busy - but I am thinking we should aim for a wa focus - so we can be more specific - and if a larger focus is needed they can learn from us? I suspect being too general leaves it too open... when you have the time an email would be better SatuSuro 10:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

That's cool :) atm just adding images to Hamersley article, but I'm a good multitasker :) Orderinchaos78 12:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Done. Orderinchaos78

Accepted your invitation to edit sandbox - I hope thats OK. Great idea BTW. —Moondyne 13:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

it weren't much. no big deal. —Moondyne 13:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiWorld & GE

Interesting comics project. Certainly inspires possible directions for WP. AND.. Growing Earth Theory has been nominated for deletion and will probably need support. It's a very curious conflict and seems to accurately reflect the situation on the ground. MichaelNetzer 17:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Hey Fred,

What discussion are you referring to? Thanks. --liquidGhoul 10:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's right. Forgot we were talking about this frog. Thanks. --liquidGhoul 10:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't taken by me, but I guy I know from Flickr. He also released his Litoria xanthomera photo. I wish I could be up in Cairns looking for frogs, but don't have the money and need to go to uni :(. It was taken just north of Cairns. Thanks. --liquidGhoul 11:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Didja

want some quotes from the mentioned about da chipping? SatuSuro 11:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC) (I'm back from da long journey dads taxi stuff :) )

viz: Until the 1960s there had been little international trade in w-c (used to make paper) because there were few ships prepared to carry a cargo with such a low weight-to-volume ration. Bt in the mid 1960s J began building specialised w-c carriers. Combined withj a ferocious J appetite for paper and packaging, the new carriers opened the planet's forests to an unprecedented level of plunder. p.93 Lines a long..

viz the conservator of forests in w.a., said of w-c in 1968 ' Through the medium of this industry we can see ourselves reaslizing the dream of all foresters - complete utlilization' same pa as above and found in Routley, R and V 'The fight' SatuSuro 11:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Before you decline, would you like more of the above if i trawl the=m for such - vicente vivace vivisimo? SatuSuro 13:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Some of bills pages i will scan and deliver - they sort of a have symphonic sympathy and synchronistsic synergy to the vice vivace vivisimo sense of why call a forester a forester when they call everyone else not a forester? ifya getch what i mean SatuSuro 13:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Archive #4

BAB & AFD

It is a fun article, Back-Arc Basins. Most Expansionists don't deny the compression activity at the subduction zones but it's a long way to go from compression zone to subduction, because of holding to a pre-conceived notion that the Earth has always been the same size. It would be nice to begin seeing a percentage value to theories. Even 75% subduction, 20% expansion and 5% other, would be better than the present state. Though our evidence base is more likely on the side of an opposite proportion, such a system would be more true to the stated creed of science. You're never in my way, btw. We're both heading in the same direction, I'm sure. Your comments were excellent and covered points others were also likely considering. Everyone's input made the discussion worthy, detractors and supporters alike. Thanks much. MichaelNetzer 11:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Never

could paste back my quanratined items - never. Clearcutting is the american usage. Any need for further v- v- v materials? SatuSuro 12:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Lgood one to quote to nefarious rousers of the rabble is Time Cube just saw it mentiond on another talk page... there is room in the ether for that which cannot be referenced first line in a google search after all! SatuSuro 12:07, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Apologies - delays due to - severe distraction with beelzebub and gommorah being given an aikido trip up, in the name of passive resistance to facing blunderbusses up the nose - (well away in time and space from v and v and v) sigh SatuSuro 12:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Scattered showers of referentials this evening sir? SatuSuro 10:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC) ?

You have a wire with the wordes sir - maybe afds are our field of effluence and efficacy? SatuSuro 12:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Cripes man, I could fill your refs with lots more would you like em ? SatuSuro 12:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Award and awarding

It was always going to get there, but I was confused by dis!?. Fred 11:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry mate, don't know what's you're saying. Oh, wait, maybe I do. There's a massive backlog at TFA. B. integrifolia was promoted to FA back in November last year. We put it on the TFA requests list almost immediately, and it only just hit the main page yesterday. The fact that B. epica was promoted the day before B integrifolia hit the main page was sheer coincidence.

Probably some time this week Gnangarra and/or I will submit a TFA request for B. epica, but the request list is currently 101 articles long, plus TFA is already scheduled up to March 4, so if we submitted it now, it wouldn't get a run on the main page for at least 105 days; longer if Raul decides he is sick of running so many Banksia articles. Hesperian 12:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Aborigine

Hi Fred. Fair question.

First, I agree that it was widely used in the pre-2000 literature. I don't think you'll find it used in any culturally-sensitive work after around them, when it began to acquire this offensive connotation. I've been reprimanded a couple of times by knowledgable people like Land Councils when I've inadvertently used it myself, which is why I'm now rather sensitive to it.

We did actually have a discussion on this about a year ago, after which the word "aborigine" was expunged, but I see it's crept back in, so I was just doing a tidy-up, not making a political statement!

Can I give an authoritative refernce which defines what is OK and what is not OK? Well, how about the UNSW guide which says "Some indigenous people of Australia object to being labelled "Aborigines" - a term imposed on them by the first British colonisers, which also refers to any indigenous people in the world." RayNorris 11:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• I'm glad you like the picture!

• Yes, even if we somtimes disagree, I think we're both trying to do the right thing, which makes life a lot easier! I might ask AIATSIS if they could spell out what's OK and what's not OK on their FAQ page - I think it might be helpful to a lot of people. I think they used to have a guide but it seems to have disappeared. Maybe for political reasons.RayNorris 11:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The advice was invaluable

You pointed in just the right direction. Hardly a better way to understand how the complex works. I've dressed up my page and am enjoying the research for a new article on a subject I've known little about. I'm thinking of what's needed to reference the EE page and have started compiling sources - coming soon. Addictive is appropriate, especially on a Friday. Thanks again. MichaelNetzer 11:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Loïc Dachary‎ Free Software engineer, spokesman and activist. Started the stub so it commits me. I looked for a project that needed help and was removed from my circle on interests. Joined Category:WikiProject Free Software articles and cleaned up an ailing page. Now it's time to give something back to WP. MichaelNetzer 12:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Cool :)

Glad it was of use, I'm going to be on and off busy, alternating between having too much free time and having none, so seemed to make sense to just comment it out :) Orderinchaos78 12:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Replied via email. Thanks for the best wishes too :) Orderinchaos78 No worries. And eeeeee.... mail. Orderinchaos78 09:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Fred.e/Sandpile

This page is confusing the AfD categorisation system. Could you comment out the REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE... template so that it isn't listed in the list of current AfDs? --ais523 17:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Oops. My sandpile nearly became an article for deletion. As it contained an article for deletion discussion it was sure to be confusing debate. - Fred 17:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, everything's fine now. Thanks! --ais523 18:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Fred - I am currentl embroiled in an alternative universe - unknown hours out of sync - shall try to break through the synergistic lunr solar dinscrepencies and jump into your sand with water bucket sometime this weekend. - keep promising one thing and then real life gets in the way - more power to the brindersnatch, and maye they gyre and gimble in the waves but never let john lennon meet them on the other side. Trust all that very clear, ta. SatuSuro 02:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC) (whares gnagn when we need him, in the mountains of the south, sigh )

Please ignore the following

AAAAAH(please dont mention it)NNNGGG SatuSuro 13:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC) Aaah that feels better, now as I was saying.... ummmm... 13:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Fredulence my voracious viper of virulent paper makers from the home of douglas adams falling whalemeat, and the deep dark days of the infernos on ice, have been distracted by complete and utter idiocy SatuSuro 14:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC) and there seems to be more - its all inthe planting guides - either side of the moon i'd say other than the other side - and as for anyone with a user name that starts with the letter d- dont let me start. i'm off and out - having had the most uproductive edit evning since the blatant serial vandal on winnie the pooh got the btter of me as my better half requested that i turn the computer off... argh the terrors of life...SatuSuro 14:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Cretaceously speaking

It is truly a masterful pieces of science my fraudulence - tril;y vicace vivate voraciously giljie jiglie- may you be hongratulated ! exkwisitedly louigi ready! well done! SatuSuro 12:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC) Tidy? SatuSuro 13:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Missed the bit about brother be - yup first part only SatuSuro 11:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome

What a bloke! That's why I love Wikipedia - so much interesting stuff! I was atually going through the Fellows of the Royal Geographic Society category adding the names to the cats (yeah, I know, what a way to spend my Sunday ...) as they get alphabetised oddly otherwise, and came across him and his brother there. Jasper33 12:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Satusuro and you - I'd read the above and thought 'Uh?' and then thought 'these guys have clearly known each other a loooooooong time. Either that or they're barking mad. Or it's the 35 degree heat. Or too many Tooheys.' Which sort of narrowed things down a bit. Jasper33 13:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

For truth, Justice and the WikiWay

Truth by Wiki project. I'm curious to see where it goes and willing to participate. I saw the comments there after closing the discussion but wonder what would happen if you hadn't reverted. Would a bot of some type have detected and removed it? MichaelNetzer 15:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ask Aurora

They are two different species: See this link. Auroranorth (WikiDesk) 11:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Western Australia project

Fred, thanks for taking the trouble to leave a message on my talk page. Apologies for the delay in replying; I've been away for more than a month.

I'm flattered by your invitation and would like to help, but I have to say that I've increasingly made it a policy not to get too embroiled in contributing to articles on subjects I've already researched and written in detail about. My reason being that I find it irksome and indeed soul-destroying to go to the effort of writing something based on extensive input of time and trouble when the 'reward' is to have to spend, potentially, the rest of my life monotoring said articles and policing changes made by users who really don't know anything about the subject. I've had a few run-ins with self-appointed experts on various pages since joining Wikipedia (Talk:Thuggee:Second Photo is a good example), and I find them very dispiriting. The site's resolute unwillingness to make any distinctions between edits by specialists and those made by people with no knowledge of a subject whatsoever is often commented on, and is, in my opinion, one of the principal problems facing Wikipedia as it moves forward. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but life really is too short to spend it in spats with fellow Wikipedians. Good luck in your drive to improve the quality of WA material on the site, though. Mikedash 15:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

E...

...is the 5th letter of the alphabet. Orderinchaos78 15:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

F

My fredulence i failed to fortify your inFormation - glad to see your foraged on anothers talk page - yet another round owed (or is it another keg) apologies distracted as alwats .. need i say less? SatuSuro 12:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It is on the occasion of the time of the evening to let you know that unfortunately the usage of NA in a header in a talk page means that it is not an assessable article in a project - but if it is a list it is a list and is not eligble to have the NA because although it is not an article it donst deserve to get a NA because only category talk pages are ever allowed to have a class NA in them and if it is a list, then it cannot be a non article even if it is not an article, phew... savvy? SatuSuro 13:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You are most welcome to abuse me with expletives off-wiki if such a message left you even more confused. :) SatuSuro 13:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

G

Good, the problem is lists and articles can be assesseable - although there are indeed increasingly considerable pressures against lists -viz ie WP is not a list, and the current OZ people push to encourage editors to utilise categories for bunching arts rather than making lists - it is possible to get a list as featured list - we got one recently in the Indonesian project - however who let the cats out', um - the categories gotta be populated by 20 blue links minimum to avoid the cat police, and lists with big amounts of red links are like bulls to the toreador... SatuSuro 13:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Riley

I cropped the LISWA tag off and have uploaded the cropped version over yours at Commons. I just use Microsoft Picture manager which has a crop tool. I hope thats OK.

A list is an article. I'm not exactly sure what the issue is but it looks like the article is midway into a restructure with a "To be alphabetized" section. —Moondyne 13:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see what's happening now and its a mess. Looks like someone has started a restructure and has ran out of steam. I'm not getting involved but it does need some firm hands to finish it off. —Moondyne 13:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

W.A. Chip & Pulp Co

Needs a companion out there in wiki world... :) SatuSuro 10:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Thank you now theres playing in the chips and not the sand - thanks for that...would appreciate any extra text for the chip co stub...(dont forget to put it in new arts section in WP Oz! ) SatuSuro 12:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC) NEVER. now as i noticed we need cats, just like the smell of the karri forest ferns in the morning... hmmm SatuSuro 12:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Ohmygawd the endless poisibilites of the puns and complex crross refrences - (put the cat out put the cat out) its all too much for a monday - :Forestry gotta balance out for the lmberjacks and they are ok, and go to the tree... to be reasonable the old growth foresters need their economic terms too SatuSuro 13:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Man the potential the sheer cats piss aroma from the karri bracken ferns seering through the nasal passage and voila - cons and environ - wont our mate be happy to see that i really do have gneiss and conglomerate in my brain after all! still no forestry yet, sigh SatuSuro 13:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Beware my fredulation my vivacious voracious link corrector - I have carved out (no not chipped) a disambig for the singular case - as in Woodchip - it probably should be noted that the product in the article itselff stands in the plural - we should take careful note of that, in the event of an article being created for the plural form... SatuSuro 14:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC) :Old foresters dont die they just become old growth - there is no article for triabunna, tasmania - its a red link - there is a real lack of adequate work on the pulp mill locations of the past! yikes more work to go! SatuSuro 14:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC) signing off for now - good stuff! SatuSuro 14:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Woodchipping

Nice work! —Moondyne 00:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree that the claims regarding the economic imperatives do need some supporting references though. Surely that wouldn't be too hard. —Moondyne 08:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do but don't depend on it. —Moondyne 08:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

(from User Talk:Greatwalk#Thank_you)

for your contributions and good manners. Here is something you may find useful: Woodchipping. You inspired me. Just a start, see if you can add something. Best regards - Fred ^(talk) 13:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Hi Fred, Thanks! I knew Satu was working on articles but didn't know he'd started one on woodchipping. Thanks, too, for the contributions. Kind regards, --Greatwalk 04:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I explained the truth to Greatwalk. SatuSuro 11:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Nah too modest - just wait till our friend returns (hi there!) - no doubt further tags - maybe more OR where it should be cite, and Bite where it should be ref. needed SatuSuro 12:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

So it goes - cats cradle vonnegut noh theatre? I have reatreddded my trailer with 8 ply after an embarrasing driving on rim with busted tyre - and have retreated to my ruined javanese graveyard for peace and benzoin mist - listing each one in their variants... the cowboy has companions - but seeing this is a b grade movie, the dust from the horses hooves can be seen but the yeehahs and yippieeeh eye ohs cannot be heard from here in the hills, in a manner of speaking. SatuSuro 12:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC) ::Ah another roadside, ... hmmm...SatuSuro 13:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Exclusive at that - but an apple - thats profanity to a milliganism before the mcgonnalism before snowballs borges quote... SatuSuro 13:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC) Ah its all in the c - the triple c and the double c- whole articles could be created from this alone... SatuSuro 06:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC) FDredulence, your frolicking on the dusty roads of east midland perchance brought this wild east theme? If only I had memporized the blazing saddles lines i would be happier SatuSuro 08:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

woodchipping

Sorry I haven't replied to a few of your messages recently; I'm not snubbing you... well, no more than I'm snubbing everyone else, anyhow. Good on you re: woodchipping; it was needed. Pity about the graffiti :-( Hesperian 11:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Masons

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 4. >Radiant< 12:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"these people weren't notable for being masons so they shouldn't be categorised for it" - I've been seeing this fallacious argument a lot lately. I wish these people would get on and nominate Category:American people, since it is full of articles about people notable for reasons other than being American. Hesperian 07:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

• Well, the debate on the CFD I mentioned above appears to have a consensus for deletion of that category, for the arguments given there. I'm afraid I'm not sure what your question is. >Radiant< 12:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• I'm not troubled, don't worry :) I think you might be interested in this guideline on the subject, which appears to be the base of several of the comments. >Radiant< 12:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Section of the guideline? All of it, it's not that long :) I'm unaware of many categories about freemasonry existing. At any rate I closed that debate, I didn't start it. Whomever started it is quite free to start other debates. >Radiant< 13:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    • (Non-defining or trivial characteristic) Oh, but we're certainly not going to delete our information on Freemasonry! Just some categories, the information is still there. >Radiant< 14:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• It's also not "freemasons aren't notable" (indeed, we haven't deleted any articles on them recently, to my best knowledge). It's "information about freemasons is better kept in a list than a category." The aim here is to keep the amount of cats on bio articles down. >Radiant< 14:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_4

-- Drini 03:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

cain and destructus

Drop a message on my talk page when you've got something up. Hesperian 10:52, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

fair game

Given that its Australian ca. 1886, I think its public domain. Tag with {{PD-Australia}}. —Moondyne 16:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

That all good. Nice work. —Moondyne 23:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

A tip

Thanks for that... I haven't added categories to my sandpit projects yet, but what you say makes sense. Warm regards, --Greatwalk 04:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Botanic art

Me too. I already uploaded the Sydney Parkinson ones.

Uploading them to Commons can only be a good thing. We've got a fully fledged category structure going over there. As you can see, Commons:Category:Banksia marginata is rather light on for images. If you can be bothered, Commons will take any and every PD or suitably licenced image that you can find.

Whether a particular image can and should be used in a particular encyclopaedia article would have to be decided on a case-by-case basis. Use your own judgement. Hesperian 23:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

draughty

I have been doing a bit on biota and was wondering if you had some thoughts on, or examples of, articles for communities such as "Organic mound (tumulus) springs of the Swan Coastal Plain". It is a "threatened" community according to the reference I was using for Rottnest bee. When you have nothing to do, ta. - Fred 14:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Threatened ecological communities rock! I would already be working on them if there were six of me.

Some of the TECs have already been written up by CALM, e.g. Camerons Cave Troglobitic Community. But most have not.

The only TEC-related content I've written for Wikipedia can be seen at Lake Bryde-East Lake Bryde. Note the annoyingly long red-link. I don't know how to handle this. Most TEC's don't have a name, so are widely known and referred to by their official descriptions. But we can't very well use the description as the article title when the description is "[[Herblands and Bunch Grasslands on gypsum lunette dune community is located on grey sandy-clay on the top of a lake-edge dune and includes the herbaceous species Danthonia caespitosa, Lawrencia squamata, Maireana marginata, Podolepis rugosa, Senecio lautus subsp. meritimus, Asteridea chaetopoda, Atriplex paludosa, Halosarcia syncarpa, Scaevola spinescens and Stipa juncifolia]]".

(Well that settles that then - the above is correctly linked, but Wikipedia refuses to render it as a link. I guess it exceeds some link length limit.)

I suppose we can very slightly breach OR by coining our own shortened version for a title, e.g. Herblands and bunch grasslands on gypsum lunette dune community.

In summary: go for it!

Hesperian 01:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

---

There's a list of threatened ecological communities under the EPBC Act 1999 here. But we also have TECs at a state level too, see here. There is no legislative framework for the WA TECs, as WA is still under the Wildlife Conservation Act 1950. This was a brilliant piece of legislation for its time, but not so brilliant as to anticipate the need for protection of ecological communities.

If you look down the right sidebar of the latter website, you'll see a PDF list of WA TECs (which is badly out of date). This list includes a "community identifier" and a "community name". In some cases, the community identifier seems like the most appropriate title e.g. Koolanooka System is a much better title than [[Plant assemblages of the Koolanooka System (Beard 1976): Allocasuarina campestris scrub over red loam on hill slopes; Shrubs and emergent mallees on shallow loam red over massive ironstone on steep rocky slopes; Eucalyptus ebbanoensis subsp. ebbanoensis mallee and Acacia sp. scrub with scattered Allocasuarina huegeliana over red loam and ironstone on the upper slopes and summits; Eucalyptus loxophleba woodland over scrub on the footslopes; and mixed Acacia sp. scrub on granite]]. But in other cases, the community name is obviously more appropriate: e.g. Sedgelands in Holocene dune swales of the southern Swan Coastal Plain is a much better title than SCP19.

Clearly we need articles for threatened ecological community, List of threatened ecological communities of Australia (with EPBC Act scope), and List of threatened ecological communities of Western Australia (with DEC scope).

Regarding placement in bio-regions, the DEC's biodiversity audit [7] is based on the 53 IBRA subregions. For each subregion there is a summary available in PDF. One of the things the summary covers is any special landscape or ecosystem values for the subregion. If a subregion contains any threatened ecological communities, then the corresponding summary document will list and discuss them.

Hesperian 04:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Good on ya. Probably need a Category:Threatened ecological communities of Australia, but perhaps not until you have a few articles to populate it. If you ever want any of your redirects deleted, e.g. User:Fred.e/Eucalyptus macrandra, or any other user space cleanup, just say the word. Hesperian 05:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Just give me a list of redirects, etc to be deleted, and I'll nuke them for you. Hesperian 12:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Any time. Hesperian 13:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject History of Science newsletter : Issue I - March 2007

The inaugural March 2007 issue of the WikiProject History of Science newsletter has been published. You're receiving this because you are a participant in the History of Science WikiProject. You may read the newsletter or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Yours in discourse--ragesoss 04:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Fact checking

Part of this re C.L. seems wrong to me, but I can't place my finger on what. Thought I'd send it your way as you know way more than I about this stuff :) Orderinchaos78 15:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I think between us we managed to fix that :) Looking at the history it's been "gone" a long while - hopefully by mid-year we can have a quality (and accurate!) set of articles about WA political history. I'm going to spend some time on it once this Wheatbelt thing is done and I've written the Hamersley spinoffs. Orderinchaos78 16:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Editing

If you remove or add text, do not mark an edit as minor. Also, I'm not sure why you removed Grye's comments off the talk page, but there was no reason to do so. Talk pages are precisely for talking about citations and other article-relevant items. MSJapan 14:51, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I see what you did, which was to refactor Grye's refactor (which was still a removal from one section to another), and I'm not sure why (because Grye moved it and gave reasoning for it), but it's still not appropriate to mark it as "minor". There are particular guidelines on what is minor and what is not at Help:Minor edit, and that is my main concern here. MSJapan 04:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Fred, I looked at the diff, and it's very much on the talk page - right here. I have no idea what else you expect me to say about this that I haven't already said. MSJapan 13:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

thank you kindly.

I noticed that you edited someone else's comment for clarity, spelling or grammar. As a rule, please refrain from editing others' comments without their permission. Though it may appear helpful to correct typing errors, grammar, etc., please do not go out of your way to bring talk pages to publishing standards, since it is not terribly productive and will tend to irritate the users whose comments you are correcting. For more details, see Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Thanks, Grye 23:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

IMHO, Talkpage header's good, thank you for a positive edit !~) Grye 01:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

says it all

3 see also

Golfers Fish

SatuSuro 05:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

When you are knitting your brow something that goes back to the earth as it expands - evidence of issues that would make drying paint scream in pain [Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience] have a safe easter SatuSuro 10:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

amphibians

"/(List of) Amphibians of Western Australia which would only contain frogs." And maybe Deltasaurus kimberleyensis? Hesperian 05:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Good luck finding material on that - you'll probably have to trawl through paleontology journals from the 60s! Hesperian 05:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Decided to turn it blue myself. Hesperian 11:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Another cat? - what would that be? Hesperian 12:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Siamese cats are alledgedly water lovers/amphibious when pressed.... SatuSuro 12:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

That led to an interesting one... a locked article.... indeed... SatuSuro 12:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Refs:

• Black 1982 A labyrinthodont amphibian from the Early Triassic of Queensland BSc Hons thesis, La Trobe Uni
• Cosgriff 1965
• Cosgriff, Zawiskie 1979 A new species of the Rhytidosteidae from the Lystrosaurus zone and a review of the Rhytidosteidea Palaeontologia Africana 22.
• Howie 1972 On a Queensland labyrinthodont Studies in Vertebrate Evolution
• Jensen 1975 Permo-Triassic stratigraphy and sedimentation in the Bowen Basin, Queensland BMR Journal of Geology and Geophysics, Australasia
• Warren and Black 1985 A new rhytidosteid (Amphibia, Labyrinthodontia) from the Early Triassic Arcadia Formation of Queensland, Australia, and a consideration of the relationships of Triassic temnospondyls Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 5.
• Warren and Hutchinson (then in press) A new rhytidosteid temn0ospondyl with postcranial skeletals preserved. Alcheringa

Refs aren't inlined, so don't ask me which are relevant to the content I included in the article.

So where's the contradiction? I'll double check it. Hesperian 00:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have

"Deltasaurus kimberleyensis, pictured here, which grew to an average length of 91 centimetres at maturity, ...."

If your reference is newer or more reliable than mine (which is essentially a volume of Peter Schouten's palaeontological reconstructive artworks) then feel free to overrule it. Hesperian 00:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

P

I think it's okay. :) And yes, I was surprised after years of believing otherwise to find -urup is the correct spelling. I even stayed there once - a story in itself which I won't discuss publicly in case Wikipedia gets sued. :) Orderinchaos 06:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

de Bernales

Thanks. I don't know and hadn't noticed the common surname to be honest. That info was per ADB. I'll get Colebatch's book out of my library again on my next visit and see what he says. Perhaps someone else may know. —Moondyne 07:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Assessments

Hi Fred. I notice you doing so much needed work in assessing articles. Just one thing: when you leave comments, could you please do so on the comments subpage (eg Talk:Lang Hangcock/Comments) linked from the project tags. Regards, --cj | talk 12:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Castle Rock Wines edit

No problem Fred. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure when the decision was made to give some of these landmarks their own page. They may be important locally but Castle Rock is hardly Everest :) Ultimately, if no one seems too concerned about these pages, I might bite the bullet and just flesh out the Porongurup Range page with details of features and remove the link to this page from the Porongurup village page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AndrewD MBarker (talk • contribs) 12:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Woodchipping

Why did you remove the data on the history, usage and economics of woodchipping from the woodchipping article as "non relevant information"? Hesperian 04:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

There's fodder for the cannons and the guilty ones can all sleep safely

Said you:

I answered your statement at Frank Jardine and supplied a citation. Please review our edits. Regards from another inculsionist, Fred 18:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Despite the date of the above comment, I am serious. I once again invite you to retract your claim and restore the category. Fred 09:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Says I:

Go for it! (and the crowd goes WILD!!!!) —Ryanaxp 14:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Then later, said you some more:

Just for the record: I was being polite(-ish) and giving you advice of my view, considering you pulled it twice during this protracted debate. I am also a bit thin-skinned when it comes to accusations of OR these days, and it is your turn to put it back. Not that I don't appreciate your flippancy, I do. Very droll. Fred 15:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

So I says:

Look, you're claiming sincerity here, so I'm bound to presume good faith on your part. Putting it plainly, the refs you cited in that article just do not support the conclusion you intend to set forth, based on the "official policies" (All Honor Be Upon Them) of Wikipedia. You do not come across as unable to understand those policies, nor incapable of applying a given rule to a particular set of facts and reaching the correct conclusion, so your motivations in this issue are not clear to me. Perhaps you're simply an entrenched partisan, and rules of the game be damned, you're convinced ol' Frankie Jardine was a blood-soaked bastard and you're gonna have him tagged as an Australian Mass Murderer come Hell or high water. I can dig it—I mean hey, we all got our axes to grind, and anyone of us on this site who claims he's never indulged in the wonderfully filthy pleasure of playing that role once or thrice is a goddamn contemptible liar. Or, maybe you really don't see the disconnect between the refs you're citing and the conclusion you're asserting (which would be unfortunate, but I'm inclined to think it's not the case).
Bottom line is, I'm rather flaky and probably can't be bothered to put any more effort into it. I mean ultimately, I could give a scheiße about this random bio article about a long-dead, aborigine-shootin' Aussie I stumbled across for all of thirty seconds several weeks ago and who I never heard of before, but I'm quite lazy and also passive aggressive enough that you're unlikely to get me to change the article, since I really don't agree with your conclusion. But the other side of that coin is I'm also throwing my hands up (as I'm wont to do) and saying do whatever you like on the article. So it's not all bad, lollers. —Ryanaxp 15:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

addendum: Two peppercorns to you for recognizing the lyric. Re-reading my most recent reply, it comes across as high-handed more than I intended. Doubtless however you understand I'm not really trying to be an asshole on this in particular, but that such is just characteristic in general of my activities here of late... —Ryanaxp 16:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Aaah theres a great talk page item - it will go down on some other dags talk page as an example of something they love for sure - you have a gmail soon SatuSuro 04:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Bessie

I'm flattered that you think I am any good at Bio's, so thanks for the compliment. I reckon this is in very good shape and ready to go. I've done a light copyedit. One minor: "She was also the first woman appointed a Justice of the Peace at the Perth Court, legislation she helped to bring about." I'm not clear what the legislation actually was - needs to be explained. —Moondyne 10:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Excellent referencing BTW. —Moondyne 10:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

If you wish, I can email you scans of

• White, Kate (1979). "Bessie Rischbieth, the feminist". In Hunt, Lyall (ed.) (ed.). Westralian Portraits. University of Western Australia Press. ISBN 0-85564-157-6. {{cite book}}: |editor= has generic name (help)
• Lutton, Nancy (1983). "Bessie M. Rischbieth, O.B.E: An oral history study". Early Days. 9 (1): 23–36.
• Lutton, Nancy (1983). "Dear family: Letters from Bessie Rischbieth". Early Days. 9 (5): 16–29.

Unfortunately I can't provide a scan of

• Davidson, Dianne (1999). "A reappraisal of Bessie Mabel Rischbieth". Studies in Western Australian History. Vol. 19. pp. 99–113.

If you want them, I can scan and send on Tuesday. Hesperian 11:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

AFL

Took a look and did my best. :) The whole thing will blow over in a few weeks anyway, it can probably be reduced to a couple of lines by then. Orderinchaos 12:10, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Selwood/Headland

Fair enough, I've seen the changes Orderinchaos has made and that looks a little better - it leaves out the more speculative details which we probably don't need to delve into. I think this minor incident has received a ridiculous amount of media coverage, but in the scheme of both players' careers, it shouldn't be that major. Rogerthat ^{<font color="black">Talk} 12:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

E

The worst part about writing a whole heap of articles in template form several months ago is when you realise the original template was faulty and have to go through reworking them all. It's for some reason less embarrassing when it was someone else's template which was faulty. Orderinchaos 13:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Quandong

No worries. I'll take a deeper look once you're done. Graham87

Bugzilla

Don't forget to search for existing bugs and feature requests. It's not unlikely someone requested this before. - Mgm|^(talk) 21:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Piece of cake. To see what's in the non-existent Category:Glumps, either

• go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Glumps. You can't get there by putting "Category:Glumps" in the search box and hitting go, but you can manually enter the url; or
• edit the category (i.e. proceed as if you intend to create it), then preview your edit. Hesperian 05:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Hesperian 05:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Musuem

Hey again. Thanks for the note - I was just reading the page as it happens. I'm delighted with the way the image turned out - my camera tends to distort buildings a fair bit due to a wide angle lens. I vaguely remembered hearing GIMP can fix this and gave it a bash. Can't believe how easy it was to do. FYI : http://www.gimp.org/windows/ I'll be having a play with this software over the next few weeks I'm sure... Right - getting too late for me, take it easy. Cheers SeanMack 16:18, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Toasted Podes

They're at AfD at the moment, I'm trying to fix them into a format where they can be projectified. Orderinchaos 20:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

None in particular. :) Orderinchaos 20:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

List of Freemasons changes

I undid them because they weren't helpful; the breaks between TOCs are more or less random in length, and the whole point of a TOC is that it only goes in one place. MSJapan 03:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Carey

OK, so what did he call himself? "Samuel", Warren" or "Carey"? Grant | Talk 04:18, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I ask because the Z Force article had him as "S. Warren Carey" which just sounds wrong for an Australian. I have seen him referred to as "Sam" in both science and military sources.Grant | Talk 04:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Got it easy in Perth

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/save-wales-from-chasers-spruiker/2007/04/26/1177459849504.html yesterdays austyralian nirespopper higher ed supp had a better one SatuSuro 09:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Vully vully conflused mein her - does it mean? or does it mean #, or could it be NA? ta for the moment SatuSuro 10:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

script

Hi Fred -- I replied here. –Outriggr § 08:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Common names for frogs

Hey Fred,

Great work with all the frog articles. I noticed that you have been naming the articles after the scientific name. According to WP:TOL, you should use the common name wherever possible. Check out the eastern species for examples.

You should go out on a photography trip to try and photograph these guys (except for the critically endagered one of course). As you can probably tell, the western species are getting very little attention on wiki. I would love to see a photo of the turtle frog (though you would need some rain, which I hear is hard to come by these days :). Thanks. --liquidGhoul 11:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the Geocrinia, as they are too uncommon to get a useful common name. However, the Myobatrachus should be called the Turtle Frog, as that is commonly used. Good luck with camera hunting and frog hunting (I recommend a Canon Powershot A5__ series, as they are compact, cheap and incredible quality). --liquidGhoul 09:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I just mean that it is the most common name used for that frog. People who talk about it, usually refer to it as the Turtle Frog over Myobatrachus. As far as I know, there are no other common names for this species, "Turtle Frog" seems to have stuck.

They are great cameras. I am considering upgrading mine to a more recent one. I would like an SLR (I borrow my Dad's occasionally), but for frogging it is too much to lug around. Thanks --liquidGhoul 05:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hilgenberg

I translated the German article on Hilgenberg in my sandbox. However, I noticed that you also have a version of an article on Hilgenberg in your sandpile. It it's not a problem for you, I will publish my version. Or do you like to improve it? BTW: Ich think the name ist "Ott Christoph", not "Otto Christopher". --D.hainz 17:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

North Mole Lighthouse

Nice one. In Lighthouses and lightvessels in Australia#Western Australia, there's a light called "Skippy Beacon" at 35° 0' S 117° 57' E which goes to somewhere near Denmark but well inland. That seems an unlikely place for a lighthouse. Ever heard of it? —Moondyne 14:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. I found it at here. Appears the coords had a minor typo. —Moondyne 14:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

For either of you try http://www.ga.gov.au/bin/gazd01?rec=290638 and have a good evening im off for my weekly dose of american doomsday tv (24) cheers folks (fred I'll speak to you later)

Actually forget all that, I was wrong in the first instance. The coords are correct and go to Emu Point in Albany. Apologies for wasting your time. —Moondyne 14:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

CfD closure for Category:Marx Brothers

See reply at User talk:BrownHairedGirl#A_deleted_category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Category:Theorized continents

Thanks for contacting me about this CfD closure. I don't have any knowledge of plate tectonics and biogeography etc., so I simply looked at the discussion. I felt that the consensus of the discussion was that Category:Theoretical continents was the preferable name. "Theorized" and "theoretical" do indeed mean different things: theorized meaning that the concept appears in a particular theory, theoretical meaning something that existed only in theory rather than in practice. In this particular case "theoretical" has an advantage in that it can also apply to fictional contexts, which apply to several of the articles on the list.

These discussions work by consensus and that admits of the possibility of people im the minority. I'm sorry if you disagreed with the close but I don't think, looking at that debate, that it was possible to discern a lack of consensus. If you want to challenge the decision, feel free to launch a deletion review. Sam Blacketer 21:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

blah blah

heheh just one art away from an update on ahmet zappa - ah my watch lists is a sheer comedians delight at times :) SatuSuro 14:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC) oops embarrasemento my summary heading should have been in this continent - and it did a tourret on me - the watchlist is flooded with the /inner workings and entrails of the new northern territory project - intriguing to see the hard work that is needed to start a project. SatuSuro 14:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

End of archive #4