User talk:Coretheapple/Archive3

Notice about WT:BLP discussion

I'm sure you will see one of my other comments about this anyway, but just as a courtesy I want to let you know I have started a discussion on WT:BLP about the Razzies.

Since I'm here, one other thought occurs to me to make. Some pages that are award lists are called "List of accolades received by..." rather than "List of awards and nominations received by...." These pages are more often for accolades received by films than for particular people, but there is List of accolades received by David Lynch, as one example of a personal list page. The word "accolade" has a meaning that is specifically a positive one, and so by changing the name of the Sandler list page to "List of accolades received by Adam Sandler" the Razzies could be excluded from that page on the grounds that they do not fit the page title description. That would not, of course, resolve the BLP question for any individual pages, but it would be solid non-BLP grounds for leaving them off the Sandler list and other similar pages. 99.192.79.171 (talk) 17:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.93.187)

I don't think it makes any difference. "Award" is defined as "a prize or other mark of recognition given in honor of an achievement." Coretheapple (talk) 21:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

As a point about language, perhaps not, but the Razzies are officially called "awards" and described as such by everyone who talks about them. Even people discussing the Razzies on WT:BLP are talking about them as awards and even you were saying they could be included on an "awards" list if there were secondary sourcing. Changing the wording to an already commonly used term for page names like "accolades" would seem to more clearly resolve the issue of whether Razzies should be included. But it was just a suggestion. 99.192.93.29 (talk) 16:19, 27 June 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.93.187)

DYKcheck

Is DYKcheck working for you now? Sorry for the delayed reply to this, between real life and fire drills at DYK I've been busy. Shubinator (talk) 06:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Working fine! Thanks. Coretheapple (talk) 17:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Excellent, good to hear :) Shubinator (talk) 15:09, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of LeRoy Prinz

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article LeRoy Prinz you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Taylor Trescott -- Taylor Trescott (talk) 03:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

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COIN

Hi Core, would you please comment on this? Thanks. (sorry to bother you) Jytdog (talk) 21:22, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Johnny Broderick

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Infobox image for Michael Kidd

Hi, Coretheapple. I'm doing the WP:GA review for Michael Kidd, and I have a concern about the image used in the infobox. It's a complicated enough situation that I thought it better to reach out to you directly outside of the review. The image is a non-free photograph taken for Life magazine. The current fair-use rationale is very dodgy and needs to be updated, which I started to do myself. However, there is a complication because the photo not only includes Kidd, but also Fred Astaire. I think it will be difficult to come up with a plausible FUR for using a non-free image of Astaire on the article about Kidd. What I would like to do instead is crop the current image to remove Astaire. Then we can use a typical FUR for the image of just Kidd. However, that will mean updating the caption in the infobox as well. Alternatively, we could look for some other image to use for the infobox, such as this one. Let me know what you think. --RL0919 (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey thanks for reaching out to me on this and for the GA review. I see your point re the non-free image. I think that cropping it would probably be the best alternative, as it looks less stilted than the head shot. But the head shot is fine too. It seems to be from the "It's Always Fair Weather" era. Shall I crop and reupload? Frankly I don;t have too much experiences with images, so if you want to it may be faster. Coretheapple (talk) 19:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Cropped; uploaded; FUR and caption updated. --RL0919 (talk) 19:32, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks much! I do notice that what I'm seeing now is a distorted version of the old photo. Could it take a while to work its way through the system? Coretheapple (talk) 19:43, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Happened to me also. Your browser has cached the old image, but now presents it in the space for the new image (which is a different size because I cropped it). You have to reload the page so that the browser cache is updated. Ctrl-Shift-R, I think (although that may be browser specific). --RL0919 (talk) 19:52, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I wish I'd notice this response earlier. Coretheapple (talk) 22:42, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Michael Kidd

The article Michael Kidd you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Michael Kidd for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of RL0919 -- RL0919 (talk) 22:40, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Michael Kidd

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Your GA nomination of Johnny Broderick

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Your GA nomination of Johnny Broderick

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Case Opened: Banning Policy

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BabyFirst

I was wondering if you might have an interest in this type of Request Edit, since it is a correction, rather than a content submission. CorporateM (Talk) 17:50, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

I changed it back. It might have been a malicious edit. Coretheapple (talk) 21:16, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Yelp GA Review

Hey Coretheapple. user:Protonk picked up the abandoned GA review for Yelp and I was wondering if you wanted to double-team the GA review a bit. In particular, I have implemented a lot of minor copyedits and mundane stuff, but some of the feedback on more loaded/controversial topics I think would be more practical for a non-conflicted editor if you have an interest in contributing to this particular page. CorporateM (Talk) 14:45, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

• Just adding my assent here. Comments are welcome in any review but this one is particularly tough and input on proposed changes (or my comments) would be very helpful. Thanks! Protonk (talk) 14:58, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Sure, I am going to be scarce for a couple of months but will try in the next day or so. Coretheapple (talk) 15:29, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Perfect. CorporateM (Talk) 17:16, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of WhoWhatWhy for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article WhoWhatWhy is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Your GA nomination of Fort Lee lane closure scandal

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Please remove uncivil tag

The fancruft tag on the Russ Baker article is excessive (the NPOV tag suffices) and risks being uncivil, especially when there is zero discussion in Talk. I have removed it. The article can be further improved over time. Bn (talk) 18:47, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I have a question

If you dislike paid editors so much, why do you put up with Jerem43?

I refer to this right here.

Just curious. Thanks for playing and cheers. 76.191.202.31 (talk) 06:22, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

This is the encyclopedia anyone can edit and this talk page is not the "Coretheapple assignment page." If Jerem43 raises your ire, act on it somewhere. Coretheapple (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom

Morning, wanna stand for arbcom? Right now, it's looking abjectly easy to get elected, with only 4 or so candidates standing, of whom only 1 would ordinarily stand any chance.

If elected under a suitable manifesto, you would have a strong mandate to argue whatever your manifesto had contained.

Anyways, you would need to submit a statement of intent to Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2014/Candidates in less than 48 hours from now. You can refine it later in the questions, of which there are many.

One candidate last year didn't bother answering any of the questions, and still got elected anyway.

Normally one needs to be an admin to be on arbcom, but this year most of the candidates are not, and apparently there are ways round that.

I will understand if you prefer not to be plunged into this, but I hope you will consider it! Thanks. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:44, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Why that's very flattering but I don't think I'm right for that kind of thing. Coretheapple (talk) 14:22, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

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Seasons Greetings

		Happy holidays.
		Best wishes for joy and happiness to you and all your loved ones from ```Buster Seven Talk 21:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much! And the very best to you. Coretheapple (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

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CSG International

I know that you disapprove of an editor with a financial connection offering copy/paste drafts due to situations like BP. Most such efforts contain severe NPOV problems like dedicated Award sections, primary sources for corporate philanthropy, trivial awards that do not meet WP:ORGAWARDS, etc. and editors often implement these drafts anyway. However, I thought you might have an interest in this case, because the article was afflicted by promotional and poorly-sourced editing by a prior paid editor and I've actually been helping correct it on the article-subject's behalf. If you take a look at the original article[1] before I drew attention to it, it had all the classic signs of promotional paid editing. In comparison to my draft I've added (not removed) contentious material (legal disputes), corrected promotionalism rather than introduced it, and so on. As per my usual, it will get vetted again through a GA nomination.

Your name was top of mind and I was interested in seeing your reaction in such a case. Naturally the issue remains that it's impossible or unreasonable for you to actually check each source, do your own research and verify the contents, but I also imagine you can reasonably trust it is not the work of spin-doctoring considering the nature of the changes. user:Prelude after noon handled a similar case recently where they may not have checked every source, but the draft article was quite obviously better and you could tell it was not a spin job just by skimming it. CorporateM (Talk) 15:35, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Well I guess it's better, and it does have that arbitration award (which is not terribly negative, by the way). Wikipedia does have a quandary in dealing with this kind of article, since we do not have a dedicated "business writing" staff to work on articles that don't tickle the fancy of our young and sometimes brain-dead often narrowly focused volunteer editors. Wiki editors as you know are driven by their personal interests, and rarely do their interests include corporations that are not terribly interesting except to their employees and shareholders and within their industries, like this one. I'm quite typical in that regard. I just spent quite a bit of time upgrading the article of a 1920s pole-sitter! I just happened upon the guy, noticed he had a Wiki article that wasn't very good, and worked on it. Obviously this company is more important in today's society than a 1920s pole-sitter, but that's my choice and I choose how to spend my time here, and am not compensated by pole-sitters or anyone else. The question is whether to 1) Allow paid editing or 2) Simply do without articles that don't interest our volunteers. I favor the latter because, honestly, when Wikipedia puts up an article on the site, it pops up first on Google searches and, being unsigned, is accorded deference by the general public as a "Wikipedia product" and not as a "company-generated product." Having companies hire people to write about themselves also gives them a disproportionate share of Wiki-attention not given to their more publicity shy counterparts. Coretheapple (talk) 16:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Yup, well Wikipedia is a hobby site and if WMF ever does hire its own paid editors as I hear has been done in other countries, it will be for important medical topics and top 100 important articles. All business topics (not just org pages) are under-served by the community, because even business professionals write about their favorite football team and CEOs are not prolific Wikipedians. That's part of why I focus on articles related to my professional background + I don't have much in the way of interests in popular culture and whatnot. I disagree with the depiction of most Wikipedians as young or stupid and think we have a fairly diverse and mostly quite intelligent crowd. I do agree that it can be very time-consuming for editors and mostly fruitless. Request Edits are like AfC, where editors are mining for gold. However, I don't see any better way of doing it than what I am doing.

I do think that the community has increasingly shifted away from covering people/businesses of extremely marginal notability in order to focus on a number of articles that can be reasonably maintained and this is aligned with what you're saying to an extent. I have never been super active in AfDs, but do cleanup projects now and then and I am surprised how effective promotion is as an argument for deletion, where I feel a few years ago participants were focused exclusively on notability and the lean has gone towards delete, rather than finding any excuse to keep. CorporateM (Talk) 00:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Well "stupid" was a poor choice of words (you may notice that I struck it out), but I think "young" is accurate. Or maybe my definition of young is broader than yours, which is possible. I've felt for some time that retirees would be an excellent source of editors, writing on their areas of expertise. But as to your other points, I think that in general the community just isn't interested in business. The exceptions seem to be persons with a vested interest: business owners, employees, paid editors, customers and people who don't like the particular business in question. That's the problem, to the extent there is one. We may just have to live with Wikipedia being poor in terms of covering business, even important topics, and great in terms of pole-sitters, video games and other subjects of less consequence. I do see some very strong coverage in military and historical areas, though. It's hit or miss. For instance, I noticed quite some time ago that there is a gaping hole in coverage of topics related to Mexican-Americans, which I assume is due to a dearth of Mexican-American editors. Yet in vandal-fighting I keep stumbling upon a plethora of articles on South Asian people and institutions, some quite obscure. If someone were to do a full site survey the results would be interesting. Coretheapple (talk) 16:13, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I think the best way I've seen it depicted is increasing editor "diversity". We need editors with a wider range of interests, backgrounds, ethnicities, cultures, gender, etc. and that is a big part of why there are efforts like the Visual Editor, to make editing Wikipedia more accessible to non-technical editors, as well as why there are efforts to make the culture less hostile and more gender agnostic. I found some age-based demographics here and it seemed to have a little bit of a leaning towards a younger crowd, with half of editors being over 30, but pretty balanced. I happen to be 30 years old, which could make me old or young depending on who you ask ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 17:36, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Those numbers are useful, though I'd like to see a more specific age breakdown. However, 13% are under 17? Another 14% are 18-21? Explains a lot. Coretheapple (talk) 22:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

But that just means 27% of editors are under 21, whereas the US Census Bureua reported[2] 24 percent of the population was under 18 at the last census, so it's almost exactly representative of the population. CorporateM (Talk) 16:00, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

No it is not. The Census Bureau was counting the total number of people under 18 of all ages, including newborns and toddlers, whereas Wikipedia was dealing with people under 21, most of them presumably clustering toward the upper end. No way of ascertaining without more precise Wikipedia data. But if there was indeed a substantial number of editors who are subteens, that strengthens my opinion, not weakening it. Coretheapple (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

A special greeting...

How charming! Thanks very much. Coretheapple (talk) 16:05, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

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