Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 March 13

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March 13

Pronunciation

Does anyone know how this French writer pronounces her surname: Hélène Cixous? // BL \\ (talk) 00:58, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

ay-len si-SOO--K.C. Tang (talk) 04:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

For those of you IPA-friendly, French pronunciation: [elɛn sizu]. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 05:58, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you both for very helpful answers. // BL \\ (talk) 14:02, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Are you really sure? I would pronounce ey-layn seek-sue; French pronunciation: [elɛn siksu] — AldoSyrt (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Coptic/Greek Translation

I have a religious key chain, and on one side of it is a message of what I deduced to be in the Coptic alphabet.

In Coptic, the message look like this: ——————————

Since my computer doesn't show Coptic letters, I took the Greek equivalent letters (found on the Coptic alphabet article) and ran a Google search on it. The exact phrase "φύλαξον με υπό την σκέπη σου" comes up with several hits, though what does this phrase mean? (A Google translate doesn't come up with anything intelligible).

On the other side on the keychain is an icon of Mary holding a baby Jesus. Around her is what looks like "MP' ϴƔ". What does this too mean?

Thank you--67.71.36.54 (talk) 05:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, how religious is your keychain? I had one that used to wake me up for early Mass -- too enthusiasic! So I traded it in for one that's content with a late-morning Sunday service. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The alphabet may be Coptic, but the language is definitely Greek. Φύλαξόν με ὑπὸ τὴν σκέπην σου means something like "Guard me under your protection". It's a line from a prayer (possibly more than one prayer) in the Orthodox liturgy, cf. [1]. As for "MP' ϴƔ", my best guess is that it's an abbreviation for Μήτηρ Θεοῦ, "Mother of God". —Angr 07:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The first word (φύλαξον) is etymologically related to the English words phylactery, phylaxis, and prophylactic. -- Wavelength (talk) 03:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Answer acknowledged and appreciated. --67.71.36.54 (talk) 16:40, 14 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.30.118 (talk)

Origin of the word "Taxi"

Hi all,

The last paragraph of this article and this article appear to contradict each other. I know which one I probably believe over the other (the latter), but does anyone know what the truth of the situation is? --Rixxin (talk) 08:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, the latter is attributed to a reliable if somewhat spammy source, while the former was recently added by an anon, and is about to be removed by me. —Angr 09:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Please explain how the American Heritage Dictionary is "somewhat spammy". --Anonymous, 11:22 UTC, March 13, 2009.

Did you click the link? Unless you have something like Adblock running, it's actually difficult to find the real content on that page because of all the flashing ads. —Angr 11:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I was using a text-only browser. Thanks. --Anonymous, 19:19 UTC, March 13, 2009.

A word used in many languages, as evinced by this bilingual road sign that reads Does not apply to buses and taxis in Finnish and ... buses and dachshunds in Swedish. :) (a problem caused by the vowel ending in 'taxi' giving it the irregular plural 'taxin' in Swedish, something this translator apparently missed) --Pykk (talk) 20:47, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

(Off topic) Now that is one weird plural. The Swedish wikipedia entry avoids the issue by writing "taxibilar" (taxi cars), and "taxiar" gets more google hits than "taxin" when used as the plural. "Taxin" of course gets a lot of hits because it is the singular determinate definite form, "the taxi". This blog entry shows that it is a source of confusion to Swedes, and some of the respondents agree with Pykk. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 00:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

As I recall, the origin was a from taximeter cabulator. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

A couple of problems with that. Cab has been around a long time. For example, they had Hansom cabs in England long before there were any meters in taxis. It was derived from the French cabriolet, which was ultimately derived from the Latin word for goat (as were caper, capricious, and caprice). Cabulator is a much later arrival on the scene, and was an add-on to cab. Similarly, taxi has been around a long time, and taximeter was a relatively recent by-product. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

ASL

Is that ASL in this video here? And why would deaf people go to a concert?--80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

That link just gives me "We're sorry, this video is no longer available". But I've heard that deaf people can feel and enjoy the vibrations of music even though they can't hear the music directly. —Angr 12:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The link is working fine for me. --80.58.205.37 (talk) 12:45, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

There are a lot of reasons why someone deaf or hard of hearing would go to a concert. They may enjoy feeling the vibrations of the music, as Angr points out. They may have some hearing, but not enough in the right ranges to understand the lyrics. They may be going out with their hearing friends. They may think the bass player is cute. So, pretty much all the same reasons most people go to concerts. While they may experience it differently than you or I would, there is still plenty in the experience for them to enjoy. - Eron^Talk 14:52, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

And here in the UK some of our music channels have music videos signed for the deaf over night from 3-5am. Nanonic (talk) 15:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

It is ASL being signed, although it's being done very expressively in order to communicate the beat, musical expression, etc. Some of what she is signing isn't even "words" in the sense that one might understand, but is showing that certain types of noises are being made. It's easy to see, anyway, how a deaf person could get a lot out of a concert, especially one that's signed for them in this manner. Between watching the band (particularly, say, the drummers), and the lights, and people around you, and feeling the vibrations, you can pick up an awful lot. Not to mention that a good part of the attraction of concerts is the atmosphere. It certainly isn't only the hearing who can experience that. Maedin\^talk 18:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and don't forget that not all deaf people have always been deaf, meaning that the sounds of the instruments, and maybe even the singer, would already be familiar to them. This could be their favourite Pearl Jam song that they got to know before they lost their hearing. The signing allows them to recognise it as that favourite song, and as she is also providing the beat, the deaf person can pretty much jam along to whatever of the song they happen to remember. Just another idea. Maedin\^talk 18:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

And also don't forget that "deaf" does not usually mean they can hear nothing at all. That's "stone deaf" or "totally deaf", but the great majority of deaf people, including many "profoundly deaf" people, can still hear something, which can be amplified with hearing aids. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

You might be further enlightened by the case of Evelyn Glennie, probably the best-known classical percussionist in the UK, who has been "profoundly deaf" since the age of 12. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 04:13, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Ludwig van Beethoven's hearing gradually deteriorated beginning in his twenties, yet he continued to compose, and to conduct and perform, even after he was completely deaf.

-- Wavelength (talk) 06:19, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

See Category:Deaf musicians. -- Wavelength (talk) 06:20, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation into balinese script

Hi my partner loves Bali so what iam trying to do is translate Happy Birthday Colleen, into Balinese and have each letter coinside with it's balinese script, [[2]] , so any help will be greatly apprieciated R.121.216.203.216 (talk) 13:16, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

You want to 1) translate the English phrase into the Balinese language, or 2) transliterate it into the Balinese script? If the latter, the Balinese script article is not enough, since the vowel diacritics are not given, but you can get them at the Omniglot page. Let's count: /ha-pi ba-tde ko-lī-n/. So you need seven consonants (one is a "conjunct" for td) plus four vowel diacritics (for i, e, o and ī). Knowing all these, you should now be ready to letter your birthday card. Happy birthday.--K.C. Tang (talk) 15:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

ba-tde ko-lī-n - how is this "birthday, Colleen"? I don't get it. Rmhermen (talk) 17:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I just transliterated it according to the vowel and consonant inventories of Balinese provided by the Omniglot page. Have I plundered again? Please correct me if I did, dear colleagues.--K.C. Tang (talk) 02:32, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you mean blunder, not plunder. —Angr 20:22, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

yes, I always write "blunder" when I want to say "plunder", and vice versa ... --K.C. Tang (talk) 05:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Although the exact transliteration for English <th> sounds varies between languages, as far as I know in Malay languages the /t/ transliteration is standard, and I can't find any examples of /s/ (as in Japanese and others) or /f/, so I'd say you're probably correct with ba.t.de. 219.102.220.90 (talk) 04:01, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, how does one say “Happy Birthday” in Balinese? (script/roman). Tokyo tintin (talk) 08:06, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

portuguese psychoanalysis term: 'vida pulsional'

I'm trying to translate an article for a friend who is a freudian psychoanalyst. He uses the term "vida pulsional." The best translation I could come up with was something along the lines of "Life drive," "Eros," or "Libido," but he insists that he did not intend to mean the eros itself, but more the activity of the life drive. If context is required I'll drop it out there. Any ideas? --Shaggorama (talk) 16:58, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Élan vital and will-to-life are terms that are part of various philosophies (not sure about psychoanalysis). AnonMoos (talk) 23:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a strong hunch that I'm dealing with Freudian technical jargon. Thank you though. --Shaggorama (talk) 14:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

In Beyond the Pleasure Principle SF hypothesizes about the death instinct / death drive / Thanatos which seems to translate as "pulsão de morte". Conversely, "pulsão de vida" (¿ and vida pulsional ?) would be the life drive (inclusive libido / Eros, but going beyond that). SF generally calls it "Lebenstrieb" in his treatise (the German version of which can be downloaded from Gutenberg). PS: I have no idea about the Portuguese language, so I may be wrong. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:13, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that the page pulsión (in Spanish) may be of the potster's interest. The linked English article is Psychosexual development. Pallida  Mors 21:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

How is the word "mobile" pronounced?

How is the word "mobile," like the hanging sculpture, pronounced?

I had always pronounced it "mo-BILE," but I'm wondering if that's completely wrong. My girlfriend pronounces it "mo-BEEL," and the dictionary doesn't provide a different pronunciation between that and the adjective, so giving me "mō'bəl," (mo-bul) (which is how I would normally pronounce the adjective). That seems wrong to me, only because I don't think I've heard people refer to the hanging sculpture that way.

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks! — Sam 63.138.152.238 (talk) 17:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Both Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com agree on MOE-beel (/ˈmoʊˌbil/). Dictionary.com also gives the pronunciation /ˈmoʊbəl/ (MOE-bul, which you mentioned), including for the art term, it would seem, and the "especially British" pronunciation /ˈmoʊˌbaɪl/ (MOE-bile, which I think is what you say, if you put the primary stress on the first syllable). So you're all right, which is often the case with English pronunciation.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 19:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm assuming that Sam meant "MO-bile" and "MO-beel" and was using block capitals to indicate contrast rather than accent. Personally I've always said "MO-bile" for both noun and adjective. My Random House Unabridged (1979), however, does not even list this -- it says it's MO-ble (MO-bul if you like) or, especially for the noun, MO-beel. The online American Heritage shows all three pronunciations without distinction. --Anonymous, 19:27 UTC, March 13, 2009.

Thanks (and sorry about the capitalization confusion — yes, the first syllable should be stressed). I think that you're right that mo-bile is chiefly British English — most of my words are a confusing mangled mess of both... I'm not even sure if I say "mo-bile phone" or "mo-ble" phone — actually I think I usually avoid that by saying "cellphone" here in the States... Thanks again! — Sam 63.138.152.238 (talk) 19:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The OED gives the pronunciation as : Brit. /ˈməʊbʌɪl/, U.S. (/ˈmoʊˌbil/, with of course the British pronunciation listed first. Abecedare (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I always thought that /ˈmoʊˌbil/ referred only to Mobile, Alabama. — Kpalion^(talk) 10:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC)