Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/Archive 7

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Archive 1 ← Archive 5 Archive 6 Archive 7

Page title and terminology

User:Ériugena has recently moved this page from Countries of the United Kingdom to Parts of the United Kingdom. In the lead sentence the same editor has changed "four countries" to "four entities or political divisions".

The issue of what "country" means and how the status of Northern Ireland should be described in this article have been been discussed before, most recently in Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/Archive 5#Lead sentence. Also see Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/refs.

These changes are likely to be controversial and it is appropriate to use the Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves discussion process before moving the page. Also see the active arbitration remedies described at the top of this talk page. For this reason I will revert these changes, and a related change to Terminology of the British Isles.

If you want to propose a change to the name of this article then please follow WP:RM#CM. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:19, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

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RE undiscussed addition of symbols to the main map last month

On the 7th of March User:Ssolbergj changed the main labelled map to one with symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom&diff=prev&oldid=886620129.

Personally I have no view either way on the debate over Northern Ireland's flag/coa, however it is not shown in the body of the article. Furthermore, I don't see what the flag/coas add to the map, which purpose is to show where four countries within the UK are located.

Does such a change not require discussion in the first place User:DIYeditor?

Rob984 (talk) 18:36, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Ok, makes sense. I wasn't able to tell from the edit summary that this was the reason. —DIYeditor (talk) 18:42, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
Northern Ireland doesn't have a flag - the use of the red hand of Ulster is deeply controversial -----Snowded TALK 19:12, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Identity and nationality

If country means territory, why is there such a detailed section about nations (people) of the countries and whether they identify as British first or second? It seems to me that this section should be reduced to a summary paragraph with a header to a more detailed article.

However assuming there is a consensus to keep the details that are currently in the section. I think there is an issue. In the section Identity and nationality it states

"white English people perceived themselves as English first and as British second, and most people from ethnic minority backgrounds perceived themselves as British, but none identified as English, a label they associated exclusively with white people"

In the next paragraph

However, "English participants tended to think of themselves as indistinguishably English or British,..."

Both can not be true simultaneously, so they contradict each other. As they express points of view they ought to carry in-text attribution (with dates) and any conclusions drawn should not be in the passive narrative voice of Wikipedia, but expressed with in-text attribution. -- PBS (talk) 09:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

London

Any proposal to make London a 5th constituent country, separate from England? And what would be the terminology for this idea? 2600:1012:B026:A94C:0:4E:7CD0:A301 (talk) 06:31, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

See London independence.... and WP:CRYSTAL. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
That article is about making London a sovereign nation, as a city-state outside UK. How about having London separated from England as a country within UK alongside England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? What terms are used to describe this and is there information on the proposal? 2606:6000:60CC:C900:CD31:1CFE:179D:44B (talk) 01:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
I'm not aware that it has ever been given serious consideration. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Federalism in the United Kingdom might include London as a federal component. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
I've added it to the "See also" list in that article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:41, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Move Proposal to "Parts of the United Kingdom" (or "Countries and province of the United Kingdom

According to the UK Gov website, Northern Ireland is a province. Legally all the countries and province of the UK are referred to as "parts" I belive. This may not be a neccessary move but technically the current title is incorrect. ThanksTitus Gold (talk) 01:12, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

If you check back there are plenty of sources which talk about four countries. Northern Ireland has been called a province, but also a country (which is controversial) and so on. But it has an assembly and a distinct legal system and there are sources which support the title -----Snowded TALK 09:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd prefer "Constituent countries of the United Kingdom", as that is the best description. GoodDay (talk) 00:28, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

References

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