Talk:List of military engagements during the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Alphabetical Order or Chronological Order

Currently, there is no set order for them in the listing, so which sorting order would be the best to organize them by? They are organized in chronological order by date, but inside the date, there is no order. Elijahandskip (talk) 05:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Organizing them by Alphabetical order would be a good option, and may I add that the article looks great so far, keep up the good work! IMiss2010 (talk) 13:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Alphabetical within each date, but ignoring common words like 'battle' or 'offensive'. Readers will quickly see the pattern. Boud (talk) 22:42, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

What about also organizing them by region/offensive, e.g. Kyiv offensive, Kherson offensive from Crimea, Donetsk/Luhansk, etc.? Or would it not be advisable to show all the information twice? RGoes (talk) 22:27, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

New Article

Does anyone want to add a new military engagement called the Siege of Konotop? https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/25-february-the-city-of-konotop-in-sumy-oblast-is-under-siege Js26x (talk) 07:23, 25 February 2022 (UTC) Js26x

Millerovo airbase attack result is dumb

How can it be inconclusive? Missiles destroy planes, thats a Ukrainian victory — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.22.255.72 (talk) 16:38, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Support If you have no losses, and no territory changes hands, but the enemy does have losses, how is that not a victory?

NicolinoChess31415926 (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Oppose Battles are not determined by losses, they're determined by the success of an objective. We don't actually know what Ukraine's military objective was, and as per WP:Crystal we cannot speculate.21:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Thespearthrower

@Thespearthrower Two things -

1) What other objective could there possibly be to attacking an air base with missiles?

2) Regardless of original objective, I'd argue that accomplishing anything at zero cost is at least a short-term tactical victory.

NicolinoChess31415926 (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@NicolinoChess31415926 1.) Battles can have many objectives. We don't know if they were intending to capture the base, kill troops, destroy a certain vehicle, etc. We simply don't know. 2.) That sounds agreeable but there's no precedent to my knowledge of Wikipedia or any war source actually agreeing with this. Thespearthrower (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Table colors

For Russian victory, they should be red and Ukrainian victories should be yellow, to match the colors of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine map. Also, Attack on Snake Island is not in the table. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:22, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I added Snake Island and have no opinion on the colors other than they should be color blind friendly. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Battles in the same location

For those of you out of the loop we normally do articles that begin with "1st" 2nd" "3rd" ect... to distinguish between different battles. The table here can provide that as long as the information is clear that the battles are numbered. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree. I went ahead and split the Battle of Antonov Airport into its three battle components since it changed from Ukrainian-Russian-Ongoing victories. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:06, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

battles can last for days and go back and forth. every day doesn't mean a new battle. that's absurd. example the Second Battle of Fallujah lasted 1 month, 2 weeks and 2 days. if we applied current logic to that battle, we would've had hundreds of battles of Fallujah. Goggo2022 (talk) 22:36, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

The battles are, in a way, new battles. For example the airport was a Ukrainian victory, then Russian victory (different day, different forces), then Ongoing/Ukrainian victory (New Ukrainian forces). The new forces is why I believe it can be listed in separate battles. The article clearly separates the different waves into different sections. Same with the battle and siege. A battle is different than a siege. Elijahandskip (talk) 22:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2022

change ongoing for battle of Berdyansk to Russia Victory 72.89.118.23 (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

The city appears to be encircled, not captured yet, so the battle is still ongoing. Elijahandskip (talk) 21:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Battle of Melitopol

This should be changed from "Russian victory" to "ongoing" due to the fact that all credible sources tend to agree that the city has yet to be taken, at least fully, by the Russians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.18.8 (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I'm happy to make this edit if you give me notable, reputable sources for your claim.Thespearthrower (talk) 04:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The Battle of Kherson is not a Ukrainian Victory.

Remove the area that says “Ukrainian Victory”, it’s mostly a Russian victory judging by the areas captured so this is very misleading. 2A00:23C5:5C91:B100:D4B2:40A:2ABB:51F2 (talk) 07:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Berdyansk

100k + population, coastal city, relevant strategically (allowed Russians to encircle Mariupol, which is still holding on for life), able to form a passage from Crimea to the Donetsk oblast parts occupied by Russia. Shouldn’t this be added?Angele201002 (talk) 08:30, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

There was a page for the Battle of Berdiansk, but there weren't enough good sources or events related to it, so it was merged into the Kherson offensive. I think we can at least mention it on the list, if the separated article cannot be improved to stand alone. RGoes (talk) 11:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Support It needs to be added. I was just about to ask this.Thespearthrower (talk) 09:58, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I moved it back to draft, so it can be improved to stand alone and avoid deletion due irrelevance. I'll try to improve its sources and expand the text a bit. @Angele201002 and @Thespearthrower can you help with links and also some text to explain why it was relevant strategically? RGoes (talk) 14:50, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Here are some links, I believe the sources are reliable. https://www.aa.com.tr/fr/politique/les-forces-russes-prennent-le-contrôle-de-tous-les-bâtiments-administratifs-dune-ville-ukrainienne/2517498 https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/russian-forces-seize-port-of-berdyansk (Also has some info about the city) https://www.qdnd.vn/quoc-te/tin-tuc/quan-doi-nga-da-kiem-soat-thanh-pho-berdyansk-687262 https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44475/putin-orders-russias-strategic-deterrence-forces-on-alert (I don’t know about the reliability of this source - lots of unreliable news these few days - but they make important arguments about the relevance of the city plus Putin’s motives) https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2022/02/28/7326885/ (Ukrainian website, lots of important info here: no military but police, the flags, protests, etc).

Thanks for the links. i'll try to read them and add to the current draft. Here is an article that claims that the troops that passed through Berdyansk reached Mariupol and made a land connection under Russian control between Crimea and Donnetsk (https://www.wsj.com/articles/kyiv-and-moscow-hold-talks-as-ukrainian-troops-repel-russian-attacks-11646046458), unfortunately, it is paywalled and i could not access it. Someone create a new article for the attack (not battle) on Enerhodar, and i may follow it and demote the Berdyansk battle to an attack, since it was very uneventful, but it is still strategically relevant. When i finish editing it and move it back to mainspace, i'll add it to the list here. RGoes (talk) 20:25, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

hope all this helps. Apologies for the links in various languages but it’s hard to find a lot of sources Angele201002 (talk) 19:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I finished adding what i could find to Attack on Berdiansk, and it is now live. Please check and improve it. RGoes (talk) 21:30, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2022

The Attack on Enerhodar is still an ongoing engagement I request that its outcome should be changed to ongoing rather than a Russian victory Demotal (talk) 19:46, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Enerhodar is not on the chart, its WP page redirects to "Kherson offensive", which does show as ongoing in this chart. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:55, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

One table for all battles or a table per month

As a new month started, some editors are planning to start a new table, and eventually keep one table per month. I propose that we keep only one list, even if it eventually gets too long, because currently there are not many engagements to justify separating them and also because separated tables would not allow users to easily filter by ongoing battles or order them by end date. RGoes (talk) 16:26, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

The Battle of Kherson should be marked as ongoing, not inconclusive.

Inconclusive implies that the battle has ended, with neither side clearly realizing their strategic objectives, and this is not the case. Ukrainian resistance remains in the city, but the fighting is not over yet. 2605:8D80:605:FCB9:E891:76DE:4B5C:8A09 (talk) 16:52, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

I believe the situation is that both sides have claimed victory. NicolinoChess31415926 (talk) 04:11, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Konotop seems to be RU military victory, UA political victory

See the current content of Battle of Konotop (2022) and Talk:Battle of Konotop (2022)#More evidence that the city was not captured?. My impression is that we should write neutral or truce or something like that, though we need more sources. How about Russian military victory; Ukrainian political victory? Remember that Putin claims that the Russian forces are "demilitarising", and many of the Russian soldiers probably believe that. So a temporary deal like this is credible. Boud (talk) 17:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)