Talk:Marwa and al-Majnun al-Faransi

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Literature

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[Untitled][edit]

^{[dubious – discuss]} I am flagging this as dubious since there are no outside sources to verify the content of this article.

"where did you get this a Arabic story? It may have Arabic names and stuff but try looking for the tale in Arabic sites, no one has heard of it. I'd be very interestd in seeing some sources for such claims."

Soruces please. --Maha Odeh 12:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ANSWER: Many sources on Arabic stories are found in other languages, particularly across the Mediterranean, due to intense exchanges, travelling, crusades, etc. Online Arabic sites are a non-exhaustive source of information, just like every other language. As you know, most of the sources of information of ancient literature, especially Arabic or Persian, are not yet referenced online, but can only be found in highly specialized libraries around the Mediterranean.

"Besides, the story seems very inconsistent. How can he be studying in France, studying the pyramids and having anything to do with the Califate in Baghdad at the same time! That is rediculus. Besides, the Arabs called the French Al-Ifranj so it should have been Al-Ifranji."

ANSWER: That is not rediculus, even less ridiculous. Many scholars were travellers, very early on. Ibn Battuta covered more ground: from Morocco to Mongolia. It surprises me that you ignore the long tradition of travelling and studying, started by the Greeks and the Egyptians, to distances that even today seem far. The Mediterranean has always been a territory of convergence.

As for the patronyms, various translations added to the extensive travelling, added to the long period of time since the events has made many patronyms fluctuate in different minor variations. That would explain why you saw "Al Ifranji" (by the way, do you speak it ?) instead of "Al Faransi". Also, he is sometimes referred as "Al Faransawi".

--

Contradiction[edit]

The article says:

To him were attributed a variety of incredibly passionate romantic, sometimes erotic, Arabic poems^{[citation needed]} and songs, considered among the foremost examples of the Udhari school^{[citation needed]}.

This is a contradiction, Udhri poetry could never be erotic. Udhry poetry can not be erotic, this is the main feature of Udhri poetry. Whoever wrote this does not know what Udhri peotry is. --Maha Odeh 12:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ANSWERS:

Actually, the article does not correlate Udhari and erotic. Some of his poems are related to the Udhari school, and some are erotic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.25.139.13 (talk) 15:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no contradition and being non-erotic is not "the main feature of Udhari poetry".

Where were the fact tags removed?[edit]

Why were the fact tags removed without adding sources? Adding two authers in French at the end of the page is not very helpful as I am not disputing the whole story, just the tagged issues. This is what I want references for.

ANSWER: The fact that all references on the planet are not in English is an obstacle to English-only readers. Alas, the world is made of so many countries that have the barbaric habit of maintaining their own languages. I'm sorry it's not helpful to you. What would be helpful though is a correct spelling.

"I know for sure that in Arabic literature and history there is no mention for such a story (let alone a poet); before adding the tag, I did a search in the net and the results were 0 in Arabic and only this page was referenced in English. (google search)"

ANSWER: you must be quite the scholar to believe that you know every possible item of Arabic literature and history, "for sure". Once again, if you limit your research to what is referenced online, especially by google, and especially in English, you won't go far in research.

"It may very well be a French story, I have no idea; but having it in French does not mean it's Arabic. So I hope you can put forward some references I can actually look up. Maybe in English so that everyone can". --Maha Odeh 12:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ANSWER: "Everyone" is not English speakers, and vice-versa. It may well be a French or a Spanish or Italian story, yes. To prove it's actually Arabic, maybe someone who doesn't have a day job could first travel to translate the whole referenced sources into English (the only acceptable language as a source), then go to Cairo, look through the old libraries of Al Azhar and Alexandria, and translate it all in American English, for the benefit of all the enlightened world (that is, for you: the English-speaking world).

Marva[edit]

Salam, could it be thta the girl Marwa was the princes of merv and later people called her after her countrry??

ANSWER:

Salam yourself. This is a very interesting idea, but I don't think so, as Marwa is a very common Arabic name.